Tweet
Obviously, you have never been stabbed by a junkie for a few items of cash.
-
Nope, over here you can get a couple years for pot possession. But I've had to dodge all the vomit on the sidewalks and deal with plenty of drunk people.Stop Quoting Ben -
Keep rolling your eyes, Odin. If anyone thinks his comments on the Kurds v. Turks is 'racist' then they are wallowing in the pit of PC McCarthyism.“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)Comment
-
It's more like Kurds vs. Americans. He's saying that the freedom of the Kurds are totally inconsequential as compared to whatever goodwill we'd get from the Turkish gov't from locking up people who help Kurds. I don't see how this is not racist."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
-
It's more like Kurds vs. Americans. He's saying that the freedom of the Kurds are totally inconsequential as compared to whatever goodwill we'd get from the Turks from locking up people who help Kurds.
And this is racist because? Sorry, not racist at all. Mostly smart politics... and I don't think he's wrong either. Turkey is much more important to keep on our side than the Kurds.“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)Comment
-
And you don't?are people who have something to hide,
Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
"Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!Comment
-
Because he's saying Kurdish lives aren't valuable.And this is racist because?
Towards what goal? Honestly, how would locking up pro-Kurdish people change Turkey's stance in the war on terror. It's not like radical Islamists would start loving the most secular Islamic country in the world if they break with us. Folks like Qutb considered Ataturk's revolution the ultimate sin.Mostly smart politics...
It's evil! It's not a question of keeping people on our side (and this ain't gonna change anything at all), but draconian repression just because such actions might make an ally a little bit confortable (though in the long term more stable).and I don't think he's wrong either. Turkey is much more important to keep on our side than the Kurds."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
-
Because he's saying Kurdish lives aren't valuable.
He is saying they are less valuable than American interests. Nothing wrong for an American to say.
Honestly, how would locking up pro-Kurdish people change Turkey's stance in the war on terror.
Letting a Kurdistan form would have disasterous effects on the US's relationship with Turkey, who has been a very good ally to us since the 50s.
It's not a question of keeping people on our side (and this ain't gonna change anything at all), but draconian repression just because such actions might make an ally a little bit confortable (though in the long term more stable).
Yes, so? It's keeping our allies happy by locking up those backing terrorist groups (ie, PKK).
I still haven't seen any sign of racism. Chickle Little PC Princess strikes again
.
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)Comment
-
Realpolitik is morally disgusting, and that is an example why.Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
[And this is racist because? Sorry, not racist at all. Mostly smart politics... and I don't think he's wrong either. Turkey is much more important to keep on our side than the Kurds.
Comment
-
Realpolitik is morally disgusting, and that is an example why
And this is why morals are not useful in international politics, they get in the way.
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)Comment
-
Which American interests, exactly, would be secured by locking these guys up?He is saying they are less valuable than American interests. Nothing wrong for an American to say.
What are you talking about? Letting Kurdistan form out of Iraq might, but this clearly isn't related to that. Letting Kurdistan form out of Turkey isn't something that some dudes can force on Turkey, and that would hardly worsen relations between us and Turkey.Letting a Kurdistan form would have disasterous effects on the US's relationship with Turkey, who has been a very good ally to us since the 50s.
They were trying to make peace between Kurdish militants and the Turks. There's absolutely no reason to imprison them for 15 years unless you think that Kurdish lives have no value.Yes, so? It's keeping our allies happy by locking up those backing terrorist groups (ie, PKK)."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
-
Only if you're an evil capitalist.And this is why morals are not useful in international politics, they get in the way .
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
-
Just so everyone understands what this case is about, I will quote the most pertinent passage from the opinion below:
"Furthermore, Defendants' contradictory arguments on the scope of the prohibition underscore the vagueness of the prohibition. The "expert advice or assistance" Plaintiffs seek to offer includes advocacy and associational activities protected by the First Amendment, which Defendants concede are not protected under the USA PATRIOT Act. Despite this, the USA PATRIOT Act places no limitation on the type of expert advice and assistance which is prohibited and instead bans the provision of all expert advice and assistance regardless of its nature. Thus, like the terms "personnel" and "training," "expert advice or assistance" "could be construed to include unequivocally pure speech and advocacy protected by the First Amendment" or to "encompass First Amendment protected activities." 2003 US App. Lexis 24305 and * 60-61 (9th Cir. December 3, 2003)."
The expert assistance must be to a terrorist organization listed as such by the Secretary of State. It is clear that the court had some significant difficulty with labeling me PKK a terrorist organization. It was labeled a terrorist organization by Madeleine Albright in 1997.Last edited by Ned; January 27, 2004, 01:14.http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=enComment
-
Which American interests, exactly, would be secured by locking these guys up?
Greater allied friendship with Turkey.
They were trying to make peace between Kurdish militants and the Turks.
You mean like giving money to Ocelan?“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)Comment
-
Exactly by how much? What would the Turks offer? How could this be more valuable than greater Kurdish liberties.Greater allied friendship with Turkey.
No.You mean like giving money to Ocelan?
"The Humanitarian Law Project, which brought the lawsuit, said the plaintiffs were threatened with 15 years in prison if they advised groups on seeking a peaceful resolution of the Kurds' campaign for self-determination in Turkey.""Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
-
How could this be more valuable than greater Kurdish liberties.
Easily. Giving Kurdish freedoms decreases Turkish friendship (potentially greatly). The Turks are a close ally and militarilary powerful. They are also friendly to Israel and a secular Islamic state. Allowing people to go and talk to a organization which has organized terrorist attacks against that state is just not going to go over well.
And besides you have YET to prove the claim was racist, which was the point.Last edited by Imran Siddiqui; January 27, 2004, 01:31.“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)Comment
Comment