"When I'm a parent, I'm not going to punish my child! I will gently..."

[Japher]

because kids no how to reason... they do things just to do it. They aren't aware that it's right or wrong, and they can't reason it out...

You need not control your kid, but you need to educate them in the ways of proper behavior if they are going to be able to function in society.

[Potassium]

Originally posted by JohnT
Positive reinforcement is fine, but how do you positively reinforce the notion that crayons and walls don't mix?

You show her how much fun colouring in colouring books can be. You take her to the store, buy her a new set of crayons, let her pick out a book, colour in it with her. I had plenty of colouring books to keep my occupied when I was little, but not that I ever coloured on the walls to begin with.

Originally posted by JohnT
Again, note that we're talking about a 27-month old child here. "Teaching them why they shouldn't be doing what they're doing" will probably work in a couple of years, but for now it usually draws blank stares and a lot of nodding.

And in the other paragraph, sitting thinking about how the other kids were having fun and you weren't is precisely what your parents wanted you to do. Oh, they didn't phrase it that way... but you gotta admit that it was pretty effective, or else you wouldn't still remember it.

I still remember it because I'm ADD and I hate sitting still for long periods of time. I didn't think it was good punishment then, and I don' think it's good punishment now. I just resented getting punished and learned how to be a lot sneakier in whatever it was I was doing.

And no, teaching them right and wrong isn't necessarily going to work, but what do you expect a swat on the bottom to do?

"May we see what's in your diaper?"
"No"
*Swat*
*cry*

Oh yeah, that worked wonders.

[Stuie]

Originally posted by Potassium
I just resented getting punished and learned how to be a lot sneakier in whatever it was I was doing.

So you learned a valuable lesson. What's the problem?

[Potassium]

Originally posted by Stuie
So you learned a valuable lesson. What's the problem?

You seem to have missed the part where I said I learned to be sneakier and avoid getting punished. I never learned why I was getting punished, just that whatever I was doing would get me yelled at and put in a corner.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

K,

You learned a valuable life lesson. How to get away with stuff.

[Potassium]

^^^ See, that I agree with.

[JohnT]

No children of your own, eh Potassium?

You show her how much fun colouring in colouring books can be. You take her to the store, buy her a new set of crayons, let her pick out a book, colour in it with her.

The presence of coloring books does not preclude a child from drawing on a wall.

I still remember it because I'm ADD and I hate sitting still for long periods of time. I didn't think it was good punishment then, and I don' think it's good punishment now. I just resented getting punished and learned how to be a lot sneakier in whatever it was I was doing.

Again, the punishment was effective 'cause you actually remember it to this day. Who cares if you resented it - that's the bloody point!

[Snowflake]

Originally posted by JohnT

The presence of coloring books does not preclude a child from drawing on a wall.

You tell her that walls are not for drawing. Then you give her a wet cloth and let her wipe it off. She won't do it well but that is just to teach her that she needs to take responsibility. Then you give her a piece of paper and tell her that she could draw good stuff there and you will stick that picture to your refrigeritor.

And then, you repaint your wall.

And then, you wait till the next time she draws on the wall again.

And then, you wait till they grow up and stop doing that.

Just make sure you use those paint that will cause you the least stress when your wall is drawed upon. It is natural that children want to draw everywhere. Don't get too angry on that. Find a way to make it not so hard on you.

Michael's drawed on walls and carpets. But he hasn't done this a lot. I think the fact that we didn't make it a big deal perhaps helped. Also he has a white board where he can draw and lots of pieces of paper to dribble on.

[chequita guevara]

I was a rotten **** child. I have no idea how to handle problem children. At least that's my opinion of myself. The reality is when I was taking care of my neighbor's kids while she was at work, I was actually quite good. Stern, but not mean. Never yelled, and only resorted to force, once, by picking up a kid who had refused to move in protest.

[Whaleboy]

If you want me to get psychological on your arses (and you dont but bite me), spanking is an example of classical conditioning. It is, inherently, hit and miss, and rather ineffective. Consider the "benefits" of a violent household. It is far more indicate of parents that are given to stress and frustration. That's ok, we're only human, and sometimes, that means we cannot be good parents. Oh hang on... what about the parents that don't spank and raise successful children? Hmmm excuses are up people .

[chequita guevara]

Spanking made me a communist.

[Japher]

Spanking made me a republican.

[Snowflake]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I was a rotten **** child. I have no idea how to handle problem children. At least that's my opinion of myself. The reality is when I was taking care of my neighbor's kids while she was at work, I was actually quite good. Stern, but not mean. Never yelled, and only resorted to force, once, by picking up a kid who had refused to move in protest.

This is a very good example why parents sometimes cannot do as good as school teachers. Because parents are emotionally related to their children, so they tend to spoil them more, or are more upset by their misbehaviors. One can be real objective and rational when it is not your own child. One can talk theories all day. But the real test is to have your own children.

[Potassium]

Originally posted by JohnT
No children of your own, eh Potassium?

No, I'm not an irresponsible teenager, kthx. I do have 8 neices and nephews, whom I've been with since they were born. I've practically lived at my sisters houses since I was little, so I'd like to think I at least know something by observation/babysitting, since I've been doing it since I was 6.

The presence of coloring books does not preclude a child from drawing on a wall.

That's why you tell her why she shouldn't draw on the walls and you show her how much more fun it is to draw on paper. See also that one guy's post above.

Again, the punishment was effective 'cause you actually remember it to this day. Who cares if you resented it - that's the bloody point!

No, the punishment was not freaking effective, because I did not stop whatever the hell it was I was supposed to not be doing, be it talking out of turn, or sneaking snacks, or any of the stupid things I got yelled at for. The only thing I did learn was that I shouldn't do such things around my mom. Punishing a kid is supposed to teach them why they're not supposed to do something, not throwing them in a corner, yelling at them, and telling them to think about what they did. How the hell do you expect them to learn anything if you just throw them in a corner and make them divine for themselves why they shouldn't be doing it?

[Adalbertus]

Just a few thoughts of a non-parent (who thinks he has not forgotten his own childhood):

I don't think that spanking is evil in itself, but it is easy to turn it into evil. --
A colleague told me his daughter spanked him (as much as she could) when he took her after she started crying. She was breast-fed an hour ago, and (as he told) it is not a good idea to breast-feed a baby in intervals less than two hours, so the decision was that the father should try to calm her. As a child of six weeks, the daughter started to suck at the fathers breast with the result you might suspect. That was the reason for her to spank (I don't believe she had any rational thinking behind her action).

OK, kids learn to distinguish between yes and no, and later good and evil, at an age of two or three. Before that time I don't see any reason to spank a child. After that the most important thing for the child is to know why it has been spanked. If s/he knows, why, spanking may create fears (not necessarily in the way the parents want it). If the child doesn't know why, it will feel rejected on a general basis which may lead to depressions and other sorts of things a parent probably doesn't wish to see. So my basic attitude is: If you spank, explain, why.

The other thing is with fears. When you spank due to lies, a child probably develops a fear to lie (which isn't a bad thing, IMO. Unfortunately our society is based on lies and liars). It is essential, however, that a child can avoid spanking if it doesn't lie. I. e. don't spank it if it broke a glass and did admit it. And usually it is easier for a child to see the damage which is done by breaking a glass than by lying. But also it is important that a child gets a chance to see what damage is done by lying.

I don't see any benefit in spanking for school things, because this only creates fear of school which is a bad thing.
Lastly, I think the worst punishment for a child is to refuse to speak to him/her. The only way parents can totally wreck a life of 70-80 years in a few weeks.

So, I probably would spank if and only if it serves as a "shortcut" to reflect the child's actions with respect to their relations to other people. Kids do this among themselves anyway.