christianity and communism are fundamentally opposed.

[Ned]

I lived for several years in a monstary. Life there is very much the same a communist describe as their ideal system. I can tell you that such a life is very pleasant, but ultimately sterile.

In a view, communists merely ask that all of society become monastic. It is strange that communism opposes Christianity rather than supports it. Very strange.

[Berzerker]

I lived for several years in a monstary.

Weren't you scared?

[Ned]

Berz, scared of what?

[Elok]

Well, monasteries are vaguely "communist," but usually for very different reasons. They expect you to work continuously, but for the same reason the Amish do, that idle hands are the devil's tools, and that it's the duty of monastics to serve humanity, not to sit around praying and having others bring them food. There's also a strong streak of individuality within the community; the monks are there for their own benefit, and a great deal of emphasis is placed on the spiritual progress of any one single monk. At least that's how it is in our monasteries.

As for God not wanting commandments to become obsolete, the point isn't supposed to be having a continuous list of forbidden concepts. Very few of us still worship idols, for example. That commandment can also be, and frequently is, interpreted to mean that we should not treat earthly concerns with greater respect than we give to God. In that light, "theft" might also be taking credit for others' work, lazing off all day and still trying to collect wages for it, kidnapping...you don't need property to be a thief. Mentality is the issue at hand.

[axi]

slaughter of Christians

Come again? You're probably confusing the USSR with ancient Rome or sth...

[Elok]

Originally posted by axi
Come again? You're probably confusing the USSR with ancient Rome or sth...

Actually, no, communist countries in general haven't been kind to genuine Christianity. They'll tolerate vague lip-service, e.g. "thank you god, for giving us the Chairman," but true faith in anything, including Christ, gets stomped. I met a priest once who spent many years in a Romanian prison getting tortured, back when that country was communist. His name is Father George Calciu. And of course Christian missionaries who try to go to North Korea still get executed without trial on a regular basis. And there was an angry letter to the Washington Post the other day pointing out that China's "Catholic Church" is actually an arm of the government's propaganda machine, and not only unrecognized but condemned by the Vatican. Communism is not friendly to fervent religion, period.

[David Floyd]

Though, I do have fond memories of our old days of long, drawn-out debates. I have discovered that, regardless of anything else, people will find the truth in their own time. So it's silly to try to believe otherwise.

Monk, no offense, but when I can demonstrate to you, using the text of the Bible, that you are wrong, holding that view becomes silly - it smacks of "Na-na-na-na I can't HEEEAAAR you!"

[Inverse Icarus]

Originally posted by skywalker


So you read The Amber Spyglass too?

no, is it about something like that? maybe i should find it.

[Berzerker]

Ned, the monsters.

[Ned]

I agree with Elok. Communism is more that atheism. It is as hostile to religion as once the Roman Empire was hostile to Christianity. This is what indicates that Communism is a form of religion because it acts like one.

I also view the ACLU as hostile to religion. They want more than separation of church and state. They want the public domain to be religion-free.

We can see here in this forum extreme hostility to religion from virutally all leftist posters.

The Democrat party itself has become hostile to religion. Anyone who has strong religious views cannot get confirmed to any court. The party had become downright anti-Catholic.

There is a pattern here, is there not?

[Ned]

In the monestary where I lived, there was no money and everything was communal. The emphasis was on equality and sharing. Privileges were at times accorded for merit. These were the kinds of things that motivate hard work.

But due to the fact that everything was shared and everyone was equal, there was no need for improvements in techniques or technology. Even such thinking would have been unthinkable due to its individualism.

If society became like that, virtually all progress would stop. People would live in what we would call poverty, but they would be relatively happy because everyone was in the same boat. But, if population expanded and resources and productivity did not increase, year in and year out, society would become poorer until it would collapse. Monestaries do not face that problem because they have fixed populations.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
“During this century, we have documented cases in excess of 26 million martyrs. From AD 33 to 1900, we have documented 14 million martyrs.”

I call bull****. Twenty-six million Christians were not killed in the 20th Century for being Christian. I doubt even a million were. Tweneyt-six illion Christians may have been killed, but they weren't killed for their faith.

You people are such liars.

[GePap]

NO, the two are not opposites, specially given what "opiate of the masses" meant. I see people forgetting here the common existance of Christian Democratic parties in Europe and Latin America. Of course the people posting here would utterly ignore the eixstance of such parties, so who really cares, no? I mena, its not like millions upon millions of poeple around the world have for decades voted for parties that mix socialist ideas with christianity..I mena, heaven forget!

Stalinism, Leninism and most of the FORMS of communism that came into power were hostile to organized religion (which Christianity is). Now if people want to confuse the matter, they are free to do so i guess.

[Ben Kenobi]

I call bull****. Twenty-six million Christians were not killed in the 20th Century for being Christian. I doubt even a million were. Tweneyt-six illion Christians may have been killed, but they weren't killed for their faith.

I don't need to prove this number for this argument. There are many testimonies similar to Ned's about the antagonism between Christianity and Communism in the former Soviet Union.

Ever read the Gulag Archipelago? Is Solzhenitsyn a liar?

[Ben Kenobi]

Che:

Lets flip this point. Supposing there are no conflicts between Christianity and Communism, can you prove to me that the Former Soviet Union had true religious freedom?

If not, why not?