Russia pulls out of Kyoto - What is the future of the Protocol?

[Japher]

Yes Greed is a constant, and that stuff sounds good, but it's not as unidimensional as you make it seem. Perhaps not all of us want an SUV today and a flooded house tomorrrow.

Your saying not everyone is greedy? Everyone wants a home and the comfort it brings, just no one is ready to accept the sacrifices that must be made to supply this to the world. Note: every one has needs, it is the level/quantity/quality of these needs that perpetuate greedy. Polution would exist regardless.

And you... watch all of this. Does this not make you a stalker?

only when their cute... My wife is a hippy turned republican thanks to me. I have been to many protest, concerts, gathering, the like, where these peacenicks sit around and whine. I use to do the same thing until I wisened up one day and realized that we can have both and that I can contribute to that; comfort and safety, yet sitting around and doing nothing accomplishes nothing.

That's why I got a degree in Chemical Engineering with a specialization in Waste/waste water management. I study alt. energy sources, catalysist, watershed management, and environmental conservation. I also support the lumber industry and work and support manufacturing industries, why? Because these industries aren't going to shoot themselves in the foot and destroy what makes them money. EPA regulations are always increasing and fines are always pouring in (showing that they are poluting too much). Of which, many millions of dollars go into development, optimization, and renovation of old facilities and processes to prevent this pollution. Such things would happen or exist if these companies could not continue to pollute and make money.

The Future ideally lies not with the spouting of propagandic bull**** (but practically is based on it )

Exactly, and that is why the Kyoto Treaty sucks, because it is based on propagandic bull****. It stalls the problem, but does nothing to encourage the solution nor does is supply an outlet from which the solution can be found.

Necessity is NOT the mother of invention, competition is.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Aaah a fellow Chem E., good deal Japher.

[Imran Siddiqui]

The FACT is that the US pulled out of the treaty because of economical reasons.

What kind of idiot thinks that having a better economy doesn't benefit the people?

[Tripledoc]

The vice economy of Russia, Mukhamed Tsikhanov, has just denied that Russia has decided to say no to the Kyoto Treaty.

This contradicts what economic advisor to Putin, Andrej Illarinov said at a press meeting yesterday.

Tsikhanov says that no decision has in fact been reached yet. Putin is silent on the issue.

Well obviously something has happened, but it is not clear what it is.

[Sinapus]

Originally posted by laurentius


The FACT is that the US pulled out of the treaty because of economical reasons. The fact is that the Bush administration just doesnt respect any international treaty to be made or that have been made decades ago.

Why should the Bush administration respect a treaty the US Senate didn't ratify, and in fact passed a resolution stating that it wouldn't ratify it? This happened before Clinton signed the treaty.

I am thinking the question should be why the Clinton administration signed it in the first place, if he knew that.

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Ned
I wonder why the left only bashes "corporate America?" Don't corporations everywhere look out for the interests of their stockholders over the interests of the public at large?

I don't think they only bash corporate America, but the reason its the #1 target is because it is the most high profile category of business. Look at the top 100 largest companies/conglomerates/corporations/whatnot by asset or turnover and I'd bet that the majority are American or identifiable as predominantly American. As such "corporate America" is the poster boy of capitalistic greed. More than that though I think it leads leftist thinking people to believe capitalistic and corporate greed is a strong part of American values and culture.

Either that or leftists watched the film Wall Street too much.

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by Tripledoc
The vice economy of Russia, Mukhamed Tsikhanov, has just denied that Russia has decided to say no to the Kyoto Treaty.

This contradicts what economic advisor to Putin, Andrej Illarinov said at a press meeting yesterday.

Tsikhanov says that no decision has in fact been reached yet. Putin is silent on the issue.

Well obviously something has happened, but it is not clear what it is.

Apparently a bargaining is going on between the EU and Russia about the terms of Russia's admission into the WTO, and Russia is willing to trade Kyoto for softening of the EU position. Can you imagine, the evil EU demands that internal Russian prices on gas be raised 4 times. It seems they want to utterly destroy the Russian economy and bring even more misery on the Russian people.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Big Crunch


I don't think they only bash corporate America, but the reason its the #1 target is because it is the most high profile category of business. Look at the top 100 largest companies/conglomerates/corporations/whatnot by asset or turnover and I'd bet that the majority are American or identifiable as predominantly American. As such "corporate America" is the poster boy of capitalistic greed. More than that though I think it leads leftist thinking people to believe capitalistic and corporate greed is a strong part of American values and culture.

Either that or leftists watched the film Wall Street too much.

Perhaps they also watched "Dallas," with JR Ewing given as the prototype corporate executive.

But, it is clear to me from reading posts here on Apolyton that leftists outside the US tend to think that US corporations run the Republican party and control the US government.

[Tripledoc]

Originally posted by Ned
But, it is clear to me from reading posts here on Apolyton that leftists outside the US tend to think that US corporations run the Republican party and control the US government.

Not neccesarily all corporations. Ted Turner and Bill Gates are left of the republicans, are they not. I think leftists generally believe that the oil business is closely tied to the republicans. Or more generally the 'old industry' boys are supporting the Republicans, while the 'new economy' boys are supporting the Democratic Party.

[Ned]

Tripledoc, I cannot speak for all corporations, but in my time I worked for four of the very largest, and was an executive in the last one I worked for. None of these supported any party. The last one I worked at had top executives from both parties.

Just because an upper level executive is a Republican or a Democrat, seldom do the "corporations" support any party because the executives tend to be from both parties and/or are independent. Further, direct corporate campaign contributions are illegal.

When an executive joins the government, he or she has to financially separate themselves from their former firms in a manner such that their actions cannot result in financial gain. When a member of the government leaves to join industry, he or she cannot be involved in any matter that could affect his former employment with the government.

Still, as we saw with the recent Boeing case where both the CFO and CEO resigned because they hired the very person in the Air Force who made the decision to lease rather than to buy certain aircraft from Boeing at costs greater than buying, corruption can occur. I hope all involved in that fiasco are severely punished.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by aaglo
Ogie,
they who know better should tell the third world. In fact, they should act as an example.

And somebody has to take the first step. It's a very poor excuse saying "because nobody else does it, why should we".

And in the end, it's the money that affects these decisions.

Yeah, the third world will just say "oh, look, the US and russia do it, we're going to screw over our developing economies and do it too!"

[Kuciwalker]

[SIZE=1] Originally posted by Enigma_Nova
Yes Greed is a constant, and that stuff sounds good, but it's not as unidimensional as you make it seem.
Perhaps not all of us want an SUV today and a flooded house tomorrrow.

If you don't want an SUV, don't get one. If you aren't greedy, that's your choice. Just don't compain about US being greedy and taking all the wealth

[aaglo]

Originally posted by skywalker
Yeah, the third world will just say "oh, look, the US and russia do it, we're going to screw over our developing economies and do it too!"

Better to have ruined economy than ruined atmosphere. After all, air is easier to breathe than money

[Kuciwalker]

I'm sure that's the view they'll take

[aaglo]

They should