phelps is at it again.

[Q Classic]

christians may be the vast majority--but really, it almost seems as if most of us are christians in name only.

i'll admit that i often fall into that category, but i try not to.

[SKILORD]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
If Christianity is under attack by society at large, Christians have only themselves to blame, since they constitute the vast majority of society. Athiests, Jews, Moslems, Hindus, and all other religions scarecly add up to 20% of the U.S. population, so it's gotta be Christians attacking other Christians . . . which is the way its been for 2,000 years, so I don't see why we shoud be surprised.

Yes, but it's Christians opressing themselves (As Q says many are only Christian in name, who don't really go to church and if they do keep their 'church' seperate from their life) becvause of our vast majority.

Another note: David Limbaugh has a book out titled 'Persecution' I reccomend it (I haven't actually gotten abround to reading it, but D. L. tends to be a decent political writer) It is about Liberals (America hating Americans, Christianity hating Christians) have persecuted Christianity.

[uh Clem]

Back to Phelps for a sec.

Below is a photo from one of his rallies. If your sense of irony is up to this, take a look at the guy on the left, with the blue cap.

Note shirt. Note logo on shirt. Hmmmm....

(From the blog Sisyphus Shrugged)

Edit: Okay, okay, try this:Phelps

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by SKILORD
(As Q says many are only Christian in name, who don't really go to church and if they do keep their 'church' seperate from their life)

Ah yes, those "fake" Christians, as opposed to you "true" Christians. Sounds like a 2,000-year old argument to me (Irenaeus or Simon Magus anyone?) You people are so sectarian you make us Trotskyists look like ametuers.

[Sava]

Phelps better hope I never run into him...

[FrustratedPoet]

Why? Would you try and touch his ass?

[Ben Kenobi]

we can't kick 'em out, because we are not to judge them;

QCubed:

We are not to judge those outside the church, but we do have forms of discipline for those who are inside the church.

Here's what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 5:9-12

"I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people-- not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."

[Ben Kenobi]

Che:

If Christianity is under attack by society at large, Christians have only themselves to blame, since they constitute the vast majority of society. Athiests, Jews, Moslems, Hindus, and all other religions scarecly add up to 20% of the U.S. population, so it's gotta be Christians attacking other Christians . . . which is the way its been for 2,000 years, so I don't see why we shoud be surprised.

Christians make up the majority of the population? Do you have any examples of Christians persecuting other Christians?

I'll admit there have been times in the past, my own church used to be persecuted by the other Christians for their disagreements. But then the Catholic church also sold indulgences, a practice they have ceased.

Let us hold the church accountable for their actions today.

[Ben Kenobi]

You people are so sectarian you make us Trotskyists look like ametuers.

(As Q says many are only Christian in name, who don't really go to church and if they do keep their 'church' seperate from their life)

Che, will you agree with me that a sincere Communist will try to apply the ideals of communism to their life? Why would you expect something different from Christians?

The key is not to seperate, the commitment of faith apart from the life in Christ, the two will come together. This is the whole rationale behind Paul's exhortations, to encourage people to leave behind their old life and to start with the new.

In Ephesians: 4:22-25

"You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; to be made new in the attitude of your minds; and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one body."

[FrustratedPoet]

Do you have any examples of Christians persecuting other Christians?

Are you kidding?

Just for starters, I'd like to point you in the direction of the Protestants and Catholics knee-capping the ever-loving **** out of each other in Northern Ireland for the past generation or two.

[SKILORD]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Ah yes, those "fake" Christians, as opposed to you "true" Christians. Sounds like a 2,000-year old argument to me (Irenaeus or Simon Magus anyone?) You people are so sectarian you make us Trotskyists look like ametuers.

Firstly: You are a trotskyist only because Stalin failed, were Stalin the exiled man buried in an unnamed Mexican grave and Trotsky the mass murdurer (Or better yet the failure who was overcome by the forces that Stalin vindictively demolished) You would be a Stalinist.

Secondly: I do not question anyone's faith, I only say that it is evident that there are officials in government who overcompensate for Christianity being dominant. I don't believe it is the government's job to compensate for such things. I believe in freedom of religion, I believe that we should let kids pray in school, let kids influence other kids, let teachers influence kids, but don't use government funds to attack or endorse religion. Do you understand what I'm saying, Trotskyte?

[Ben Kenobi]

Just for starters, I'd like to point you in the direction of the Protestants and Catholics knee-capping the ever-loving **** out of each other in Northern Ireland for the past generation or two.

Actually, that's a worse point than violence sanctioned by the religious authorities, as was the case during the Counter-Reformation, against other Christians.

Secondly, that's not in the US. Che's limited himself to the US, blaming ALL the persecution of Christians coming from other Christians.

There's actually not much US persecution, most persecution of Christians comes from other countries, particularly Muslims, and in China.

[SKILORD]

In support of what Kenobi said:

A homosexual, since homosexual marriage is illegal in America (I don't think it should be, but I am not arguing in an Ideal, Libertarian world, I am arguing in the present realm), is dependant upon fornication to to do his homosexual thing. A person who is completely unrepentant and goes to communion (confession in some cases) with the expressed desire of partaking in sin that evening, or the evening after, is without faith, is without sanctity, is without godliness. This goes for heterosexual fornicators too, and theives, and liars, and those posessed by covetousness, etc. It is cheap grace to these people and I have never heard a churche endorse cheap grace, there are references in scripture I could give you, but I have to write a character sketch on Dorian Gray.

I don't [EDIT: DO NOT] question their faith as individuals, we are all sinners and I don't know if they are truely repentant or not, In cases where they are not though, my argument stands.

[Ben Kenobi]

Skilord:

A homosexual, since homosexual marriage is illegal in America (I don't think it should be, but I am not arguing in an Ideal, Libertarian world, I am arguing in the present realm), is dependant upon fornication to to do his homosexual thing.

No difference I'm afraid, between the one and the other.

Romans 3:10

As it is written:

"There is no one righteous, not even one;"

Just a little futher down, if you'll permit a digression.

Romans 3:22-24

This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

[Jaguar]

If any male on poly ever sees him, they must slap his ass. We should make a pact.