Pray all you want, but

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Berzerker
Molly -

Molly, you accused someone of deriving amusement from this incident and I asked who you were targeting with that accusation - and you still haven't answered (how brave). And given that last bit about me supporting a right to have faith even when it kills others is just as idiotic as your first accusation (I see you don't use quotes, what a surprise) - just go away and take your bullsh!t with you.

What accusation? I accused a fictional character of deriving enjoyment. Other than that, I have no idea what you are rambling about.

I have been to George Carlin's site now though, so thanks for that.

[GePap]

I love the Onion headline:

"God answers little boys prayers: He says NO".

[Berzerker]

Molly -

What accusation? I accused a fictional character of deriving enjoyment. Other than that, I have no idea what you are rambling about.

That only makes your contribution to this thread even more inane. But anyone reading what you posted knows you're lying now... Just go away... Your intellectual cowardice is matched only by the husband's stupidity...

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by DaShi
This year I knew of two people who drowned saving someone else.

There was an incident somewhere in the Midwest this year. Three boys, ages 8 to 13 tried to help another youngster who had fallen through ice covering a pond. All of them drowned.

[Berzerker]

There seems to be quite a few cases of rescuers drowning, most recently out in Dissident's area - Mojave Desert. Maybe the media is just reporting these cases more than usual. When I was very young, I fell thru the ice-covered Sauk River up in Minnesota...fortunately I spread my arms when I went thru and caught myself before being dragged under by the current and the ice held. But I tried to make like a water bug when I pulled myself out of the hole and crawled to shore for the 2 mile walk home freezing my a$$ off.

[Ben Kenobi]

I guess the folks on TWA 800, AA 273, AA 265, etc. just didn't pray hard enough, huh?

So being a believer protects you from all bad things?

I'd have a hard time believing God answers any prayers. What's willed is willed, and the omnipotent, omniscient creator of everything is both incapable of changing its mind, and also has no interest in playing favorites with its beings.

Strangely enough, God loves us very much. I keep thinking of the example of Josiah in the OT who through repentence postponed the judgment of Israel.

2 Kings 22:19-20

"Because your heart was responsive and you humbled yourself before the LORD when you heard what I have spoken against this place and its people, that they would become accursed and laid waste, and because you tore your robes and wept in my presence, I have heard you, declares the LORD .

Therefore I will gather you to your fathers, and you will be buried in peace. Your eyes will not see all the disaster I am going to bring on this place.' "


God lets us make mistakes, and sometimes lets the world do bad things to Christians. Look at all the martyrs.

So what should the Christian response be to these tragedies? God can save me, but even if he chooses not to, I will still believe.


Daniel 3:17-18

"If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to save us from it, and he will rescue us from your hand, O king.

But even if he does not, we want you to know, O king, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up."

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Lincoln
Well actually I agree with you to some extent. I am pretty much a fatalist myself.

Are you a closet Calvinist?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
So being a believer protects you from all bad things?

This is one of the things that gets me, people who talk out from both sides of their mouth.

Person A prays. If something interesting happens that seem to be in response to his prayer, well, we will be getting "Praise the Lord, his prayer was answered." Otherwise, we will be getting an explanation similar to the one above.

[Frozzy]

Floods. Man is in his living room as the water seeps through his door. A 4x4 offers to save him. He says "No, God will bring me through". He goes upstairs and a boat offers to save him. "No, God will rescue me!", comes the reply. He is forced onto the roof and a helicopter says "Grab onto this rope and we shall save you!". He replies "No, God will pull me through." The helicopter leaves, and the man drowns. Later, in heaven, the man asks God "Why didn't you save me?" God replies "I tried to, I sent the 4x4, the boat and the helicopter. What else could I do?".

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Berzerker
Molly -

That only makes your contribution to this thread even more inane. But anyone reading what you posted knows you're lying now... Just go away... Your intellectual cowardice is matched only by the husband's stupidity...

Telepathic as well as omniscient. Congratulations.

If I wanted to accuse someone of schadenfreude, I would. Really, it's that plain.

The husband's stupidity is matched only by your paranoia- or sensitive skin. If the former, I can advise only that paranoiacs do have enemies sometimes. If the latter, stay out of cold draughts and wear sunblock.

Dr. Chilton's punishment for Lecter was placing a television set with evangelical programmes being shown on it outside his cell. The bit about the newspaper cuttings makes this all the more apposite.

I thought of Lecter but wasn't sure- thanks, JohnT. Then I remembered Voltaire- see the link?

[Ben Kenobi]

Person A prays. If something interesting happens that seem to be in response to his prayer, well, we will be getting "Praise the Lord, his prayer was answered." Otherwise, we will be getting an explanation similar to the one above.

It is no different than the question of why does a good God allow bad things to happen in the world? The world does not care a whit for men, as we see through natural disasters.

In allowing men some degree of freedom, also allows harm to fall any one of us. I don't see how we can have a third option.

[Dis]

source? I don't believe it

[Ben Kenobi]

Sorry, got to go to bed...early class tomorrow.

What part don't you believe?

[Dinner]

It's always people in places like Kansas who do stupid things like this. Of course out here in California we get ditzy soccer moms who just can't understand why she can't drive her minivan through a 12 foot deep river.

[Berzerker]

Ben Kenobi - there's a problem with that passage from 2 Kings, the Lord was the one about to lay waste to the land/people, not a natural disaster. So praying to the Lord not to lay waste is not the same as praying that rising flood waters from a flash flood, etc., will cease rising.

Molly -

Telepathic as well as omniscient. Congratulations.

Just giving others here enough credit to recognise your lies. And if I was omniscient then obviously I would know what others are thinking. Doh!

If I wanted to accuse someone of schadenfreude, I would. Really, it's that plain.

Then explain the purpose of your first post.

The husband's stupidity is matched only by your paranoia- or sensitive skin.

Hmm... I never thought I was the target of your insult since I said nothing about being amused. Notice how I mentioned David's post as the most likely target and explained why your accusation was invalid? But that's classic, you jump in here to insult someone and then accuse me of being thin-skinned for asking you to support your insult. Real pathetic there, Molly... Now, are you going to explain the purpose of your first post if it wasn't meant as an insult?