New Anti-Semitism

[Al'Kimiya]

I think you all just need a big hug!

The only thing relevant to the israeli-"palestinian" issue is the argument that arabs have gazillions acres of beach real estate where they can fit in.. you know in Arabia, where arabs belong

The rest.. to quote my dear friend Dogbert.. "bah!" *waves paw*

[Ben Kenobi]

Read about it and see if you disagree.

Tried to load, that seems to take awhile, so I'll do so later.

Those are pretty serious examples of professional misconduct without the hate allegations.

[Sirotnikov]

Ah, so instead of debating the real issue (rising anti-semitic rethoric in the muslim world, and in some european societies), we are debating Israel's right to exist, the settlements and everything else.

Good job, agathon

[Az]

Fraud and performing illegal medical experiments are plenty of justification to ban the fellow from doing his PhD thesis from the university. Hate need not enter the picture.

Some would even say that they may be good reasons to put him behind bars.

[Ecthy]

I agree on the big hug. And while you guys are at it, I get your wallets

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
Ah, so instead of debating the real issue (rising anti-semitic rethoric in the muslim world, and in some european societies), we are debating Israel's right to exist, the settlements and everything else.

Good job, agathon

Israel is the problem. If you lot hadn't strolled in and ripped off the Arabs' land with the approval and connivance of the great powers I doubt they'd give two hoots about you.

If you want to know why Arab anti-semitism is on the rise (although how it could get worse is beyond me) then the existence of Israel is far and away the dominant reason. Often anti Israeli feeling slips into racism.

When I was a small boy, in the 1970s, Israel almost always got excellent press in my country (did you know we studied Israel for about 4 years in a row at school?). I don't think that any other country had such relentlessly good press at the time. But in the early 90s that started to change, with the Lebanon issue and with reports of Israeli brutality. Now, in New Zealand, harsh criticism of Israel appears regularly in the media and there is considerable sympathy for the Palestinians, who are perceived as a wronged people (which they surely are).

None of this is particularly anti-semitic, although anti-semitism in NZ is an odd thing because we basically don't have any Jews (there are very few) so when it does occur, it is entirely in the abstract.

I don't think any reasonable person could argue that if Israel didn't exist, the Middle East would be much less prone to violence. And again, no reasonable person could argue that the Arabs were treated fairly by the creation of Israel - it was forced on them to satisfy others.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Al'Kimiya

The only thing relevant to the israeli-"palestinian" issue is the argument that arabs have gazillions acres of beach real estate where they can fit in.. you know in Arabia, where arabs belong

"Arabia, where the Arabs belong" - sheesh.

OK so say, hypothetically, that the international community forces the United States to give up some land for a homeland for the gypsies of Europe. Let's say they give them Manhattan and the surrounding area.

Now the Americans who live and work there aren't going to take this well are they?

[Az]

I loved how you said Manhattan.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Azazel
I loved how you said Manhattan.

DC, Philly, does it matter?

[Paradox]

Siro.....with reference to the article you posted about the Rise of New anti-Semitism 2 things:

1. Its a misnomer....anti-semitism has always existed. It apparently went underground since '45, but true to form has reared its grotesque monstrous head once again, this time by the rabble rousing cries of fundamentalist islamic hatred using the Palestinian conflict and the purported illegitimacy of Israel as its cross ( no pun intended ).

Theres no explanation/justification for it. Never has been. Never will be. Full stop.

2. I personally can attest to daily posts of anti-semitic or ignorant hate speech on forums on sites that i subscribe to. Sadly, many of these sites have nothing to do with religion, politics or even war. As usual, these are breeding grounds for the rascist intellectuals and mobs alike to continue their intellectual masturbation syndromes justifying anti-Israeli/Jewish propoganda.
Most of them dont have the first clue as to the history, religious or political background to the ME. Sadly, they reflect a ever growing pool of so called peace lovers, moderates and open-minded westerners who have managed to revive their ancestral hatred for Jews under the pretext of a conflict which has been shoved in their faces daily by the world press. IMO this thread is just another example or hundreds taking place on the net daily.......on exactly the same subject.

You can't debate with someone who holds falsehoods and fallacial rhetoric as his arguments?

In conclusion then, i ask you: Why do you bother?

[Panag]

Originally posted by Paradox
Siro.....with reference to the article you posted about the Rise of New anti-Semitism 2 things:

1. Its a misnomer....anti-semitism has always existed. It apparently went underground since '45, but true to form has reared its grotesque monstrous head once again, this time by the rabble rousing cries of fundamentalist islamic hatred using the Palestinian conflict and the purported illegitimacy of Israel as its cross ( no pun intended ).

Theres no explanation/justification for it. Never has been. Never will be. Full stop.

2. I personally can attest to daily posts of anti-semitic or ignorant hate speech on forums on sites that i subscribe to. Sadly, many of these sites have nothing to do with religion, politics or even war. As usual, these are breeding grounds for the rascist intellectuals and mobs alike to continue their intellectual masturbation syndromes justifying anti-Israeli/Jewish propoganda.
Most of them dont have the first clue as to the history, religious or political background to the ME. Sadly, they reflect a ever growing pool of so called peace lovers, moderates and open-minded westerners who have managed to revive their ancestral hatred for Jews under the pretext of a conflict which has been shoved in their faces daily by the world press. IMO this thread is just another example or hundreds taking place on the net daily.......on exactly the same subject.

You can't debate with someone who holds falsehoods and fallacial rhetoric as his arguments?

In conclusion then, i ask you: Why do you bother?

hi ,

why does one bother , .....

simple , it starts with words , letters , and then it moves to action , people get stones trown at them , bombings , atempts to kill , messusa's burned , etc , .....

thats why one bothers , because some people hate others for the way they look , for the religion they have , .......

and thats just a small explanation , ......

have a nice day

[Paradox]

Fair enough panag....

Though truth be told my questioning was rhetorical.
What I meant was debating the subject ad nauseum . Some post heart-felt emotion, others eloquent diatribe that pretends to outwit and fool.

The facts remain as they have always been. Only some miracle of collective human conscience will help alter those whose obsessive hatred has persisted since the beginning of time....

[Az]

DC, Philly, does it matter?

How about Utah, or some other place noone wants?

Seriously, though, Arabs "as a nation" have no right to feel bad about it. They did the same thing much more times. People can feel bad about it personally, being driven away from their homes, losing all of their posessions. That is indeed very difficult and bad. But since lots of jews have lost their posessions because of the creation of the state of Israel, it was a painful process to all. Now exists a situation in which the jews have a state of their own, and live there. So do the arabs. Why not make peace now?

[Al'Kimiya]

Originally posted by Agathon
OK so say, hypothetically, that the international community forces the United States to give up some land for a homeland for the gypsies of Europe. Let's say they give them Manhattan and the surrounding area.

Now the Americans who live and work there aren't going to take this well are they?

Nah.. the gypsies belong in Pakistan Afaik it's from there (maybe India) they originate.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Azazel

DC, Philly, does it matter?

How about Utah, or some other place noone wants?

Seriously, though, Arabs "as a nation" have no right to feel bad about it. They did the same thing much more times. People can feel bad about it personally, being driven away from their homes, losing all of their posessions. That is indeed very difficult and bad. But since lots of jews have lost their posessions because of the creation of the state of Israel, it was a painful process to all. Now exists a situation in which the jews have a state of their own, and live there. So do the arabs. Why not make peace now?

Because the Israelis hold all the cards.

Look, if you read what I'm saying you will see that I'm not really blaming the Israelis for this. It's largely the fault of the international community at the time, who made what is, in my opinion, a series of stupid mistakes in the Middle East.