So, can we finally all admit Bush & Co. lied?

[Imran Siddiqui]

I know Bush is a neo-con, but he's not so neocon as the others, on a scale of one to ten Wolfy is a 10, Cheney is a 9, Rummy is an 8, Bush is a 5, and Powell is a 1.

You've got a wierd scale .

My scale: Wolfowitz 10, Rumsfeld 7, Bush 7, Cheney 5, Powell 2.

[Vandal-1]

It has been argued in this thread that since the effect of getting rid of Saddam is desirable,it does nt matter if the stated motives( i.e. Womd, oil ) for doing so are true or false.1) Failure to prove our justification serves to support Arab-nationals claims that we are evil,and will result in increased resistence in occupied territories.
2)In a age of real nuclear rivalries it is unwise to engage in gun boat doctrine at the expense of alliances( there were other consequences besides the creation of a disempowered Iraq and there will be further crisis)

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Considering how many times you have been caught in outright lies on this message board, I find it very ironic that you say this. In fact, I think the above is probably a lie as well.

I am very political so I have to perfect my skills of lying.. but if you make friends with me you will know I am dead honest about everything. I never stray from the cold hard facts when it the company of friends.

The above is primarily the truth as I would say it to a friend, but you all are not friends.. actually political adversaries. But that statement I made is the truth because the complusive lying is mainly on the left wing of politics.

[Vandal-1]

http://www.emergency.com/2003/urban_warfare_considerations.htm

[Giancarlo]

Vandal, and? So what? Why point out that source?

It seems like the US has fullfilled all the article of war in the Art of War by Sun Tzu... adequately. I am a big fan of the Sun Tzu.. I have been reading his book, Art of War, dozens of times.

This will be an moderate task for coalition forces but the US forces have air support and other factors backing them including superior equipment. What it doesn't explain is that the batteries on SAM launchers belonging to Iraqi miltiamen are worn out and old.

[Vandal-1]

I merely wish to point out a direct negative consequence to our psych-ops among other real liabilties.

[vee4473]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


...Having an elected (well, sort-of!) government ..

That's all you need to know about boris' angle... and motives...

[vee4473]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Boris: He exaggerated the truth .

I mean, obviously Saddam had SOMETHING. I mean, there was no reason for him to deny UN inspector teams access to his palaces if he was all clean.

Doesn't really matter though because Ollie North did worse and he's a hero to millions .

Ollie North did worse than Saddam?
Are you ****in' ****tin' me???????!??!?!??

Holy stupid comment Batman!

[vee4473]

or did you mean worse than bush?

sorry if i mis understood

[Imran Siddiqui]

You are too funny.... OF COURSE I meant BUSH!

[Pekka]

Originally posted by Fez


I am very political so I have to perfect my skills of lying.. but if you make friends with me you will know I am dead honest about everything.

Jeesh Fez, you sound like the 'fun' guy . Remember that in college you can be considered partypooper if you in the midst of party flash lights and go 'Listen up! Most of you are under 21 years old and as the state regulates go, you can not and I repeat.. YOU CAN NOT DRINK ALCOHOL! But because I'm such a cool and liberal guy, I won't let the cops know if you stop this party now. Lectures begin at 8am tomorrow, and if I don't get my sleep, I will notify you all to the dean, who by the way is my fathers good friend. I for one would like to succeed in this life and if you feel like throwing away your parents good money, please do so outside college perimeter. I must warn you, that in that case I will be following you with my digital video camera and will be taking names.'

[Vandal-1]

North was making use of the Black market to trade weapons originally bought with drug(other Black market)money,in order to "get around "congressional finance and accountability to the American people.
The Colonel was making use of guerilla elements already inplace in both theatres and infiltrating trade(developing trade...however you wish to look at it)
This indirect low intensity warfare was effective in both influence and cost.People are more understanding of success real or percieved I quess.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Pekka


Jeesh Fez, you sound like the 'fun' guy . Remember that in college you can be considered partypooper if you in the midst of party flash lights and go 'Listen up! Most of you are under 21 years old and as the state regulates go, you can not and I repeat.. YOU CAN NOT DRINK ALCOHOL! But because I'm such a cool and liberal guy, I won't let the cops know if you stop this party now. Lectures begin at 8am tomorrow, and if I don't get my sleep, I will notify you all to the dean, who by the way is my fathers good friend. I for one would like to succeed in this life and if you feel like throwing away your parents good money, please do so outside college perimeter. I must warn you, that in that case I will be following you with my digital video camera and will be taking names.'

Now I would never spoil somebody's party time like that. And besides only weighing 130 pounds is not an advantage for me...

Also for the fact that I live in off campus housing... these are small single room apartments that do not have much room to party.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Vandal-1
North was making use of the Black market to trade weapons originally bought with drug(other Black market)money,in order to "get around "congressional finance and accountability to the American people.
The Colonel was making use of guerilla elements already inplace in both theatres and infiltrating trade(developing trade...however you wish to look at it)
This indirect low intensity warfare was effective in both influence and cost.People are more understanding of success real or percieved I quess.

The problems, although I admire Ollie to some degree, were that he set a precedent of negotiating with terrorists, and that when the whole thing blew up in our face, it was obvious to our good buddy Saddam (who was being "cultivated" as a useful ally at the time) that the US was happily playing both sides in the Iran-Iraq war.

It also happily ignored some legitimate accounting issue with the Contras which led to the Boland Amendment, like why were Contra leaders like Adolfo Calero (one of those who Reagan called "the moral equivalent of our founding fathers" ) living it up in close to million dollar Miami Beach condos, and living like party animals, not "freedom fighters" IOW, how much US taxpayer money was funding Calero, et al's lifestyles here in the US, as opposed to funding fighters in Nicaragua?

In the end, it's highly questionable whether North's "accomplishments" were really worth the hassle.

What North did was a perfect demonstration that policy issues are rarely simple, linear "just do it" affairs.

[Vandal-1]

I think it is part of counterinsurgency doctrine (police work) now and I guess we'll see if General Clark can make enough friends to utilize it ,when his boss can't keep a straight game going. Oh-Well he'll have a fiew years to work at it anyway. I hope we can atleast tell the Kurds we did it for their sake (and IMO there is a level of truth in that)