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So, can we finally all admit Bush & Co. lied?

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  • #151
    Originally posted by Winston
    Hmm, well at least Bush didn't lie under oath about porking an intern in the White House.

    I'd say this is a step in the right direction.
    Good point. Even if they lied, it was not under oath.
    Freedom is just unawareness of being manipulated.

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    • #152
      Fez, would you agree that exaggeration of the truth generally constitutes a lie?
      Freedom is just unawareness of being manipulated.

      Comment

      • #153
        Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
        I mean, obviously Saddam had SOMETHING. I mean, there was no reason for him to deny UN inspector teams access to his palaces if he was all clean.
        Ah, I was just reading a similar thread over at SDMB. Check it out, got a bunch of thoughtful answers.
        (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
        (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
        (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

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        • #154
          Personally I believe that the way they chose to justify and sell war in Iraq is one single biggest mistake of Bush's otherwise successful presidency.
          Freedom is just unawareness of being manipulated.

          Comment

          • #155
            Originally posted by Fez
            It seems like the US has fullfilled all the article of war in the Art of War by Sun Tzu... adequately. I am a big fan of the Sun Tzu.. I have been reading his book, Art of War, dozens of times.
            Then you should have known that Sun Tzu would most definitely disagree with GWII if he were alive.

            How did he rank the 5 options a country has in handling foreign affairs?
            (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
            (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
            (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

            Comment

            • #156
              Originally posted by GP
              I don't think arguing a strong case is the same as lying.
              Strong case? Okay, where are them Iraqi NBC weapons?
              (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
              (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
              (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

              Comment

              • #157
                Originally posted by Urban Ranger
                Strong case? Okay, where are them Iraqi NBC weapons?
                They're in Iraq.
                I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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                • #158
                  Originally posted by GP
                  I don't think arguing a strong case is the same as lying. And you and Roland know it. The Bush team felt strongly that Saddam had WOMD based on his history and the imperfect intelligence. A lie would be if he didn't think there were WOMD and said there were.
                  The lie was that we KNEW they had WoMD. Even if they are found, it will still have been a lie, because Bush averred, unequivocably, that we had intelligence that proved beyond a doubt he had them. What this intelligence official is saying is that no, we knew no such thing, but we had some circumstantial evidence the administration trumped up into something we KNEW.

                  Bush saying we KNEW = the lie.
                  Tutto nel mondo è burla

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                  • #159
                    Originally posted by The Vagabond
                    Fez, would you agree that exaggeration of the truth generally constitutes a lie?
                    Absolutely not. If it takes exaggeration to remove a twisted **** like Saddam Hussein and his super twisted sons, I see no problem with it. But there was no exaggeration in this.... it was the truth.

                    UR, that is your own personal opinion. I suggest you reread the Art of War while you are at it too. I think Sun Tzu if alive today would agree with how Bush has handled things.
                    For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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                    • #160
                      Almost better than the joke about the Nicaraguan "working socialist democracy"
                      When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."

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                      • #161
                        Originally posted by Boris Godunov


                        The lie was that we KNEW they had WoMD. Even if they are found, it will still have been a lie, because Bush averred, unequivocably, that we had intelligence that proved beyond a doubt he had them. What this intelligence official is saying is that no, we knew no such thing, but we had some circumstantial evidence the administration trumped up into something we KNEW.

                        Bush saying we KNEW = the lie.
                        Amen, Boris.

                        The alternative is: It wasn't a lie because they really, really believed they knew. In that case they're living in their own fantasy world, which wouldn't be too surprising either.

                        So George, take your pick: liars or idiots.
                        “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

                        Comment

                        • #162
                          Originally posted by HershOstropoler
                          So George, take your pick: liars or idiots.
                          You mean Dubya isn't both of those things
                          Unfairly Banned at Civfanatics twice...
                          To protest the war I am using the UN Flag - Howard has said most Australians are for the war so clearly I am not an Aussie.

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                          • #163
                            IMO he's both, but in the given context, it's an "or".
                            “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

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                            • #164
                              Originally posted by HershOstropoler
                              IMO he's both, but in the given context, it's an "or".
                              It's so hard to decide, he obviously lied but he is such an idiot!
                              Unfairly Banned at Civfanatics twice...
                              To protest the war I am using the UN Flag - Howard has said most Australians are for the war so clearly I am not an Aussie.

                              Comment

                              • #165
                                JCC is not a DL

                                That is all

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