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  • #166
    Originally posted by Kidicious


    Suicide rates? I think more people commit suicide because of poverty than lack of competition. Bill Gates doesn't commit suicide and he doesn't have much competition.
    If this was a boring world as you want it to be (classless).. yes more people would commit suicide. I am not denying people don't do it now. But in communism it would go up.

    I am a supporter and always have been of capitalism.

    Bill Gates has plenty of money. I am talking about making this world classless, not individuals.
    For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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    • #167
      Originally posted by cyclotron7
      Capitalism itself is not to blame for their poverty.
      Of course it is.
      I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
      - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

      Comment

      • #168
        Originally posted by Kidicious

        Of course it is.
        Justify that ridiculous statement.
        For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

        Comment

        • #169
          Originally posted by cyclotron7
          You're being very nebulous about what exactly "communism" means to you, in a functional sense. You're not really telling me anything about Communism, just assuring me that what you think is similar to what I think in some general, equally nebulous way.
          You are so right...

          So now you can go upwards here:
          http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=87929&perpage=30&pagenumber=4


          And read my enlightening post about Marxism-Leninism. It's an answer to a question asked earlier. Very informative.
          My words are backed with hard coconuts.

          Comment

          • #170
            Originally posted by Kidicious
            Of course it is.
            I surrender to your superior reasoning. :
            Lime roots and treachery!
            "Eventually you're left with a bunch of unmemorable posters like Cyclotron, pretending that they actually know anything about who they're debating pointless crap with." - Drake Tungsten

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            • #171
              Capitalism itself is not to blame for their poverty.
              It most certainly is.

              I'm not a communist, but I can still see the fact that poverty is necessary for capitalism (in the Fezzian 'corporatist' sense). Capitalism is all about profit, and an integral part of maximising profit is having cheap production costs (i.e. labour). It's not as visible in the developed countries, but if you take a quick peak at Latin American or East Asian Wal-Mart or Nike factories, then it becomes quite obvious that the wheels of capitalism (or, at least, multinational corporatism, which is one of the major byproducts of capitalism) are greased with the blood of the workers.
              "I wrote a song about dental floss but did anyone's teeth get cleaner?" -Frank Zappa
              "A thing moderately good is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper is always a virtue, but moderation in principle is always a vice."- Thomas Paine
              "I'll let you be in my dream if I can be in yours." -Bob Dylan

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              • #172
                Originally posted by cyclotron7
                I surrender to your superior reasoning. :
                Sometimes its better to just let the obvious stand as it is.
                I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

                Comment

                • #173
                  Originally posted by Kidicious


                  Sometimes its better to just let the obvious stand as it is.


                  For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

                  Comment

                  • #174
                    Originally posted by cyclotron7
                    You're being very nebulous about what exactly "communism" means to you, in a functional sense. You're not really telling me anything about Communism, just assuring me that what you think is similar to what I think in some general, equally nebulous way.


                    You're right, you're right. I use "communism" because it is closest to what I am describing in that it represents a society of humanity living for the benefit of all. All I know in terms of a historical precedent is that it will most closely resemble various Native American tribes, that's not say that we will go back to living in tepees mind you, or that our technology will suddenly go back several hundred years. In fact, in some ways, humanity will become the new technology, for instance, one thing that we will be able to do is control the weather, interestingly enough. But anyway, that is the closest thing that I can give you for a historical precedent.
                    http://monkspider.blogspot.com/

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                    • #175
                      Yeah, that's logical enough, cinch. Quite right.

                      So does capitalism work between borders? Yes, in the global corporate way. It's a finacial system living it's own life. Completely out of control, unless you own all of it.
                      The owner is in control. So discussing it as an 'ideology' or an 'opinion' is a bit naïve IMHO.
                      Last edited by ThePlagueRat; June 2, 2003, 01:30.
                      My words are backed with hard coconuts.

                      Comment

                      • #176
                        Originally posted by cinch
                        Capitalism is all about profit, and an integral part of maximising profit is having cheap production costs (i.e. labour).
                        Would you like to define "cheap" for me?

                        I think that capitalism does not depend on workers being paid below some arbitrary pay standard. I'm not a libertarian and I don't think that we should have completely unrestricted capitalism. Human rights exploitation is deplorable, but there are plenty of capitalist businesses that do not use such practices.

                        Sh*t, if the communists get to say that 20th century communism wasn't "true communism," surely I can say that present day imperialism isn't "true capitalism."

                        it becomes quite obvious that the wheels of capitalism (or, at least, multinational corporatism, which is one of the major byproducts of capitalism) are greased with the blood of the workers.
                        Then the workers don't have to work there, dammit. I sure wouldn't if they greased the wheels with my blood.
                        Lime roots and treachery!
                        "Eventually you're left with a bunch of unmemorable posters like Cyclotron, pretending that they actually know anything about who they're debating pointless crap with." - Drake Tungsten

                        Comment

                        • #177
                          Originally posted by cyclotron7
                          Then the workers don't have to work there, dammit. I sure wouldn't if they greased the wheels with my blood.
                          If they didn't have to work there then why do they? When you go to McDonalds do you ask for the toilet brush so that you can clean the toilet because you just want to.
                          I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                          - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

                          Comment

                          • #178
                            Originally posted by monkspider
                            You're right, you're right. I use "communism" because it is closest to what I am describing in that it represents a society of humanity living for the benefit of all. All I know in terms of a historical precedent is that it will most closely resemble various Native American tribes, that's not say that we will go back to living in tepees mind you, or that our technology will suddenly go back several hundred years.
                            You sound a lot like Daniel Quinn. Have you read him?
                            Lime roots and treachery!
                            "Eventually you're left with a bunch of unmemorable posters like Cyclotron, pretending that they actually know anything about who they're debating pointless crap with." - Drake Tungsten

                            Comment

                            • #179
                              Originally posted by cyclotron7
                              Then the workers don't have to work there, dammit. I sure wouldn't if they greased the wheels with my blood.

                              Hey! It's not that easy... Depends on which country you are in.
                              In my country it's ok. (Norway) It's supposed to be a capitalist welfare state. I can go into negotiations with my employer or organize in a union. etc. But I can go and seek work only here in EU. It's not all the countries outside you can do that, undemocratic, poor, etc. And there is little work and many people. Thus, those countries are best suited for multinational corp.

                              That's what you meant, right cinch?
                              My words are backed with hard coconuts.

                              Comment

                              • #180
                                Originally posted by cyclotron7


                                You sound a lot like Daniel Quinn. Have you read him?
                                Can't say I have, do you recemmend him?
                                http://monkspider.blogspot.com/

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