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  • #16
    Originally posted by Ted Striker
    Communism is a failure every single place it has been tried
    where has it been tried?

    lets check out Russia first.

    first off, economic sanctions by the west. that never helps.

    second, look at russia's history. when has it EVER had a strong economy? russia is a barren piece of crap. look how well capitialism is thriving there now , and this is WITH economic aid from the west.

    don't even bother with the eastern asia countries. most are just jungle ridden sh!tpiles anyway. again, economic actions taken against them.

    china isn't commie, flat out. dictatorship with a flashy name.

    north korea is debatable. but the south is only "bomming" by comparison due to a lot of american aid, and american troops (the north koreans have to find a military that can stand a reasonable chance against their "enemies").

    cuba is debatable, but then you factor in US sanctions / banning of tourism, the source of many of the other island nations income.

    communism hasn't thrived because it always starts in places where the workers get f*cked, where the economies arent all that great to begin with. thats the sentiments that start revolution.

    couple that with the flat out hatred of communist countries by the west, economic actions, etc, it's no wonder they all "fail".
    "I've lived too long with pain. I won't know who I am without it. We have to leave this place, I am almost happy here."
    - Ender, from Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card

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    • #17
      Originally posted by JCG
      What I can't understand about his theories (and those of other Marxists) is how exactly did he expect the leadership of the revolution (AKA the dictatorship of the proletariat) to simply fade away and open the way to "true" communism and equality....or did he even consider that at all?
      Don´t know, I´m not a Marxist I didn´t read much of Marx himself, but what I read from him made much more sense as analysis of the contemporary form of capitalism in the 19th century. It wasn´t as simplistic as Lenin´s theory of imperialism, which is at certain points a real pain to read, not only because of his bad style.
      Blah

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      • #18
        Uber Krux, keep the so called "revolution" out of the peoples way and my way... maybe Angola is a good place to start.

        russia is a barren piece of crap.
        And look at what the wonders of 80 years of communism did for it.
        For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Uber KruX


          where has it been tried?
          Stop making excuses. It failed. Plain and simple.
          We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Fez
            And look at what the wonders of 80 years of communism did for it.
            right, because the however many years of Tsars before that didn't impact the conomy AT FREAKING ALL. russia didn't exist until communism. debts and shortcommings in the economy were ONLY caused by communism.

            i forgot. sorry.
            "I've lived too long with pain. I won't know who I am without it. We have to leave this place, I am almost happy here."
            - Ender, from Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Uber KruX


              right, because the however many years of Tsars before that didn't impact the conomy AT FREAKING ALL. russia didn't exist until communism. debts and shortcommings in the economy were ONLY caused by communism.

              i forgot. sorry.
              Well things fell apart in Russia during the 19th and 20th century. Before that it was considered a country at least.

              It was the same with the Ottoman Empire.. it slowly fell apart internally. The Ottoman Empire experienced a change with Mustafa Kemal, who was pro-west. Russia did not have such a leader.. rather had a dictator we know as Lenin.

              Communism really sent the country into the gutter though. It was screwed over and millions died under Stalin. You cannot deny this. Communism imprisoned the country.
              For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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              • #22
                Communism made Russia a superpower Fez...
                To us, it is the BEAST.

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                • #23
                  Actually Germany did
                  We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Sava
                    Communism made Russia a superpower Fez...
                    Did it?

                    I think that was Nazi Germany's doing. By declaring war on Russia, Russia had no choice but to arm itself. Before WWII.. Russia was a disaster.
                    For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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                    • #25
                      Well, ponder this... would a Tsarist led Russia have been able to defeat Germany?
                      To us, it is the BEAST.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Sava
                        Well, ponder this... would a Tsarist led Russia have been able to defeat Germany?
                        Probably not as most of the population hated the Tsars.

                        But there could of been a different route than communism.
                        For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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                        • #27
                          Well, ponder this... would a Tsarist led Russia have been able to defeat Germany?


                          Who knows, but the Communists didn't overthrow the Tsars anyway. A better question is whould a Provisional Government led Russia been able to defeat Germany, and yes, I think they would have. Especially with the economic reforms they were pushing.
                          “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                          - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                          • #28
                            That would make an interesting fiction story. Does anyone know of any books that cover this kind of subject? Alternate history, etc.
                            To us, it is the BEAST.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Ted Striker
                              Communism is a failure every single place it has been tried
                              I still contend that the basic truths of communism have worked well in BioDome projects and within a small family unit. Of course, it could then be contended that because the scale is so small, it is not communism. *shrug*
                              Who wants DVDs? Good prices! I swear!

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                              • #30
                                I just want to know what Russia would have been like if Trotsky had succeeded Lenin instead of Stalin.
                                "The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists."
                                -Joan Robinson

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