Bush Administration's latest excuse...

[Whaleboy]

"You are almost saying it as fact and forcing it down my throat"

Ahem. About the reason? Nonetheless, anything expressed in these posts is the views of the author and does not represent the views of his employer, the state, or anyone besides the author. By definition, one purports ones opinions as facts, by default, it is interpreted as an opinion. My opinions are based on things I see in history, like the cultures moving towards more liberty, or politics etc.

That's why theyre called views, in the sense that they are observations.

[Giancarlo]

Fine then leave them away from me! My opinions are based on that of strength. The more powerful governments prevail. Leftism must be knocked out where it stands so economic prosperity can prevail.

[Whaleboy]

"If there is a problem send in soldiers. But to prevent the army from getting involved, there must be a secret police foundation to counter any underground thing"

Someones been reading Orwell!! jk

Again, this is in itself a form of oppression IMO, and thus would provide another reason for the rigidity of that society, and the pressure among the populus to change it.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Um... elijah... you do know you are dealing with a Fascist? Why would he care if it was oppressive?

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by elijah
Someones been reading Orwell!! jk

I said authoritarian, not totalitarian. I am no Hitler.

Again, this is in itself a form of oppression IMO, and thus would provide another reason for the rigidity of that society, and the pressure among the populus to change it.

Well then.. to calm the people.. the leader must make nice speeches of denouncing how bad leftism is. To distract the population.

[Whaleboy]

"The more powerful governments prevail. Leftism must be knocked out where it stands so economic prosperity can prevail"

I do like to think that we as humans have moved somewhat beyond the almost non-existent sensibility of pure darwinism, as a basis for the running of a society. Nonetheless, are you aware of a process called eutrophication?

It is where an ecosystem becomes so chocked with life, in otherwords, the balance of the food web becomes an inbalance, that repercussions occur, and the entire ecosystem collapses, and most or all life in that ecosystem dies out.

It is commonly found in small water-based ecosystems, where an inwash of fertiliser from farming can stimulate too much plant growth, which messes about with the oxygen balance, the light, and eventually, the whole thing silts up.

This is a good analogy for an economy left unchecked. Given finite resources and an entity desiring infinite resources (for all intents and purposes), and the ability to take more than what one can maximally offer, as is the case with unfettered capitalism when it gets really big, then the whole thing ends up collapsing in on itself. This is a danger in capitalist societies without checks and balances, as one becomes too based on what can best be described as "shaky foundations", which is that of corporations.

Of course, I'll spare you my usual argument about the fallacy of corporate ethics, because I'm guessing that such a society as the one you are advocating is not based on much of a separate philosophical or moral code, except that of corporations? Nonetheless, feel free to correct me if that is a straw man, it is merely my interpretation of what you have been saying.

[Whaleboy]

" I said authoritarian, not totalitarian. I am no Hitler"

Fine line.

" Well then.. to calm the people.. the leader must make nice speeches of denouncing how bad leftism is. To distract the population."

Not much good if the population have rebelled against a right-wing government, and are comprised of many leftists.

Nonetheless, it would be most interesting to hear your actual arguments against "the left" (which is an enormous political spectrum as it is), instead of merely propaganda.

[Giancarlo]

Then send soldiers out and declare martial law.

If that is what must be done then let it be done.

Also I am always stressing a good economy so the people are supportive of the government. Capitalism will never collapse. Only communism does that.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by elijah
Not much good if the population have rebelled against a right-wing government, and are comprised of many leftists.

Then let the bullets fly.

Nonetheless, it would be most interesting to hear your actual arguments against "the left" (which is an enormous political spectrum as it is), instead of merely propaganda.

[Whaleboy]

" If that is what must be done then let it be done"

But must it be done? What is so bad about people protesting and expressing their opinions that warrants sending in the army?

" Also I am always stressing a good economy so the people are supportive of the government."

Tis one facet of a more complex concept for how the people support the government. One may well find that it is best described by Maslow's hierarchy of needs, and that the best way to get more people higher on that pyramid would be to impose certainly limits on capitalism, and increase liberty so people can find their own paths.

"Capitalism will never collapse."

Hopefully my analogy has shown how that is not the case. Of course, it wont ever truly collapse, but large-scale megacorps certainly can and probably will.

"Only communism does that"

I believe you are referring to Stalinism, which, after reading much of Marx's work, is entirely different from true communism. Communism can and does work, and can do better than capitalism, for example, look at products created under psuedo-communist philosophies, for example, open source software. Regardless of the OS war, one cannot deny that it is successful, long lived, and vibrant today.

[Whaleboy]

awww come on Fez, you know you want to show us the error of our ways and how we should all comply with capitalism. Show us the light!!!!

[Giancarlo]

You know I am not talking with you anymore. You are full of it. You are painting the wrong picture of me and I have had it discussing with you. You are a brick wall.

COMMUNISM IS NEVER SUCCESSFUL.. NEVER! NOT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM.

[Giancarlo]

You idiot.. how dare you say that communism is better than capitalism? Go move to a cave. There is communism. It does not work better. It is an unproductive, retarded belief that must be thrown out the window.

[Whaleboy]

"COMMUNISM IS NEVER SUCCESSFUL.. NEVER! NOT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM."

Show me how? Show me how the example I have provided is in fact not working and is collapsing. I can show you in turn how stalinism is not communism. More precisely, I can show you how totalitarian communism is a) similar to the corporate communism you are proposing and b) totally dissimilar from Marx and Engels.

"You are a brick wall"

Knock me down!!

"You are painting the wrong picture of me"

Explain

"I have had it discussing with you"

awww just when we were starting to have fun!

[Giancarlo]

Forget it. You are too arrogant to see the wrongs in your beliefs.