Bush Administration's latest excuse...

[Whaleboy]

"Where are these stockpiles?"

Ask the NSA and CIA. They been spying on Iraq for years using satellites that can read a newspaper headline from orbit. If anyone knows where anything is in Iraq, and if it exists, then they will. Begs the question of why they seemed to "hallucinate" these weapons. Even if they do turn up now, this debacle shows that this justification for the war was a speculation purporting to be a certainty.

If I was stockpiling oil, I'd store it in various barrels all over the country.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Carbon copy JW answers under my name (that would be no to all three).

Oerdin : And as such, how do you feel about the admin's propaganda / lies ?

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Jag :
Thank you too.

Don't you feel a little awkward with Bush and his cronies using excuses to justify the war to the population, or do you think this propaganda / lies were a necessary evil ?

It is awkward. However, people add weak reasons to make their cases seem stronger all the time. Which looks better to you?

I want to remove Saddam because
1. I don't like him


or:

I want to remove Saddam because
1. I don't like him
2. Nobody likes him
3. The Iraqi people will be freed
4. He is dangerous.




The first list is the reason that Bush really wanted Saddam removed. The second list is of the reasons that Bush used to justify the war. 2 and 3 from the second list were the reasons I supported the war.

[Berzerker]

Elijah -

Ask the NSA and CIA.

I asked you.

[Imran Siddiqui]

even though I don't know how Saddam was "dangerous" if WMDs were deemed an excuse to attack him

Dangerous in long term goals. There is evidence he was supporting terrorist groups in Palestine (with money and allowing them to use his country for shelter).

I have a feeling Bush sees the ****hole that is the Mid East and wants to do something about it NOW! Invading Iraq was easy. They were being *******s and everyone knew it. Syria, Iran, and Saudi Arabia are more difficult. We can't invade them, they are being just good enough (hiding their evil motives). You can see this by ratcheting up the rhetoric on Syria and Iran... and pulling troops out of Saudi Arabia.

What he wants is a new ME, one that can help contain the problem of terrorism, instead of helping to foster it.

The 'oil' cry is simply silly. A glut of oil on the world market, hurts his 'friends' greatly. Oil prices falling are not what the major oil players want to hear. Petroleum is a very inelastic good. The price rising and falling doesn't change consumption much, so oil companies want to keep the prices high. This is also why on rumors, prices jump. Oil companies can say 'this is going to happen', when it is actually just pretext to make more money . If oil wasn't so inelastic, those people may have a point, but they are ignoring the economics of the situation.

[Whaleboy]

Try near Mosul, as well as the fields near the south. I dont actually know for considering that I am not omnipotent. As such, its a reasonable speculation. If anyone knows, its the US intelligence service, although I'm beginning to think that thats a contradiction in terms

[Whaleboy]

Wow, evil motives, anti-american plots, coverups. Methinks a little paranoia is settling in.

"OMG People dont like America!!!!..... quiet.... theyre watching you, waiting for you to fall, and as soon as your on the ground.... bang"

Was Bush locked in a dark cupboard as a child?

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by elijah
Wow, evil motives, anti-american plots, coverups. Methinks a little paranoia is settling in.

Suddenly becoming the victim of terrorists that take thousands of lives can do that to you.

[Whaleboy]

september 11th 2001. Get over it. Stop taking it out on others. It sucked, it was a terrible day. It was 20 months ago.

It is, and never was, a licence to kill, or a licence to persecute, or a licence to run around with 19th century foreign policies.

[Imran Siddiqui]

It was 20 months ago.

That ain't that long ago... and if it results in being able to help reform the entire Middle East, I'm all for using it.

[Whaleboy]

Forcibly reform it? Without their consensus will or consent? Imposing ones own subjective views of government over a completely different culture, simply because it is good for that nation?

The imposition of subjectives over equal subjectives is, in my opinion, immature, imprudent, illogical, emotional, and a little egotistical.

[Whaleboy]

"That ain't that long ago" A very long time in international relations.

Im getting very concerned when conservative Americans talk about reforming the entire Middle East. Is the idiocy, the subjectivity and the naivity of such a notion only obvious to me? I dont believe it for a second.

[reds4ever]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

It was 20 months ago.

That ain't that long ago... and if it results in being able to help reform the entire Middle East, I'm all for using it.

But do they want 'reforming'? The entire area has a history of not accepting democracy (Eygpt excepted). In the middle east power vacuums tend to be filled by dictators and/or religious zealots

[Whaleboy]

They think they want reforming because they think that they have the ideal form of government and culture and that thus everybody wants to aspire to that, and are somehow being held back by evil dictators and governments and religious zealots who do things very differently to Washington. Didnt seem to occur that this is a very different culture. No matter how it seems to you internally, it should be respected in its own right when one deals with it, instead of somehow calling it "evil" and pressing "reform".

Must be 10'000 miles distance between Washington and Baghdad, but worlds apart.

[Imran Siddiqui]

But do they want 'reforming'?

I believe so. At the very least get rid of the dictators that help out of the fundy's. In the long run they would like stable democracies. I think that's clear... everyone wants that. In the short run, they'd settle for a neutral dictator (ie, doesn't have to be pro-American, but definetly cannot be anti-American).