The State of the Israeli Democracy 2003

[The Mad Monk]

Originally posted by elijah
50 (palestinians in Israel)

200 (colonialism impacting on the Muslim world)

800 (the crusades)

Let us not forget the concept of Arab brotherhood. When one attacks one Muslim, it is interpreted as an attack on all Muslims. Dont get bogged down in the issues of nationstates, some cultural forces have the power to transcend them.

Remind me...which crusade was fought at the gates of Vienna?

[Az]

Eli: which is still wrong. ( I wouldn't have freedom of faith as well. )

[Panag]

Originally posted by Colon


Understand what? That the entire neighbourhood around the central station has been a slum for ages? I don't need you to know that and I don't have the slightest clue why you're bringing to that up boy.



That's very good of you, have you found data about the composition of the Belgian/Israeli trade in there?



We have also been been boycotting the US. Coke consumption has already dropped by several tenths of a percent, which crashed our stock market and caused a severe recession.



Want to start a discussion about the Belgian labour market? You could add half a million people using a broader definition of what constitutes an unemployed person. (older unemployed that have been written out, people on early retirement etc) Our employment rate is amongst the lowest in the industrialised world and in several regions in Wallonia there's an unemployment of about 25%.

I'm sure that's fascinating stuff for you.

Go troll someone else silly kid.

hi ,

als ge misschien eens een gazet openslaat , ...... of naar den brt of vtm ziet , .....

the fact remains that the belgian local and regional governments boycott Israeli products , ....

not only when it comes to buying ground coffee or juice , also when it comes to security software , ....

the biggest proof , the law suit one pierre galand tried to launch at belgacom and skynet when they made a multi million dollar deal with esafe , ....

the area around the station has nothing to do with the offices that are standing empty due to the fact that more and more diamond traders are leaving , .....

( bewijs bij kamer van koophandel )

not to mention about the fact that for example keter plastics are being put out of offices at an enormous rate , .....

sabca can not renew its contract under pressure from one eddy boutmans , not to mention about the stunt he did last year on the second of november in antwerp , ....

while we are at it , belgium prits books thanks to one eddy boutmans ( the secretary of aide and foreign development ) that dont show israel on its world map , .... and palestine runs from north libanon to the nile , .... (!)

saying that your unemployment rate is amongst the lowest is not true , 10 million people , 2.7 in the work force and 405 000 are unemployed , ......

cijfers bij de national bank van belgie

the fact remains that we are all in a bad state thanks to a high dollar and thanks to the work of some politicians , ......

put the fear of terror and the war in iraq with it and you get what is there today , ...

oh ja , als je wilt kunnen we eens afspreken , dan zal ik zwart op wit de bewijzen laten zien , ..... ben geregeld in antwerpen

have a nice day & een goed weekend

[Panag]

hi ,

spiffor if you send a pm i shall fax you the complete overview , ....

imports to belgium

98 mo1 126
99 mo1 105
00 > 189
01 > 216
02 > 195
03> 139 or a drop of 28.7%

export to Israel

98 > 205
99 > 194
00 > 272
01 > 245
02 > 201 or a drop of 19%

all numbers in millions of euro's

okay , fine no problem there , its only one month , but then the second and third month came , they prove the same , .......

the numbers of the trade unions , the local trade chamber , etc , ....

and this in turn hurts both nations , why , taxes , revenue on sales , ......

one of the reason that the prime minister of belgium told us at a meeting in antwerp at the 8th of may that he shall see what he can do to stop this , ....

in one area of belgium the limburg more and more contracts are not renewed for the cutting of diamonds , ....

well at least our little yom haatzmaout had a large turnout

have a nice day

[muxec]

You have freedom of faith, you dont have freedom from religion.

Freedom of faith is also freedom of religion. I hope that Shinui party will do order in the state.

[muxec]

Fact, that Belgium is our strategical enemy because their international human right court is sold to arabs

[Az]

[Panag]

Originally posted by muxec
Fact, that Belgium is our strategical enemy because their international human right court is sold to arabs

hi ,

not only that , the yasser trial is on hold , ....

and now they done it again , ..... the filed one against the US of A , ....

they have nothing better to do , ......

the PM of belgium has only recently been able to form a senate investigation to the acts and deeds of what happend in belgium in WWII , .... only know shall we able to get compensation of property and human live , ....

its 2003 , the war stopped in 45 , ......

we can file know till the end of the month , but when are we going to see our money , ......

btw , there is great book about the role of the police in antwerp written by a belgian jew who run away a couple years ago to Haifa , ...... can you blame him

have a nice day

[Panag]

Originally posted by muxec

Freedom of faith is also freedom of religion. I hope that Shinui party will do order in the state.

hi ,

well that remains to be seen , its a bit to early but they do a good job , .....

have a nice day

one can only wonder why so many of us voted for them , .....

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by panag


hi ,

not only that , the yasser trial is on hold , ....

But wasn´t on the other hand the Trial against Sharon (for the crimes at Sabra and Shatila) also put on hold?

(because the belgian court was restricted to only pursue crimes outside of Belgium, if they happen within countries which don´t possess a democracy [and AFAIK Israel is AFAIK considered to be a Democracy])

[Panag]

Originally posted by Proteus_MST


But wasn´t on the other hand the Trial against Sharon (for the crimes at Sabra and Shatila) also put on hold?

(because the belgian court was restricted to only pursue crimes outside of Belgium, if they happen within countries which don´t possess a democracy [and AFAIK Israel is AFAIK considered to be a Democracy])

hi ,

nope there was a verdict , ....

what is intresting is that before the Sharon there was allread a complaint against yasser and some others , nothing happend , the it was Sharon , the yasser case got "dismissed" , a new one was filled against yasser , ....

now the filed one against every single US commander in the gulf above two star gen , .....

but dont worry , bush and blair and some other are on the "to do list" , .....


the Sharon trial was nothing more then a pathetic attempt of political justice , ..... not real justice , ......

what is also intresting is that in brussels , nota bene in walking distance of the courthouse for years there are Iranian victims of chemical weapons used by one saddam , ......

they have tried to put the bull murder in Israel's shoes after they failed to solved that , ......

but at the same time they gave harbor to one wouter basson , the head of the south african biological and chemical weapons program , .....

they spit out negative critisism on the Israeli high court and judicail system , .... yet they fail themselfs , ......

have a nice day

[Colon™]

hi ,

als ge misschien eens een gazet openslaat , ...... of naar den brt of vtm ziet , .....

Televised news coverage is crap. I read De Morgen and the Financieel Economische Tijd, and sometimes the Standaard.

the fact remains that the belgian local and regional governments boycott Israeli products , ....

not only when it comes to buying ground coffee or juice , also when it comes to security software , ....

Sorry, I know nothing about the coffee and juice situation you mention. Names? Source? And how many euros are we talking about here?

Did a check on the site of the statistical agency of Israel, around 3/4th of the Israeli/Belgian trade consists of diamonds.

the biggest proof , the law suit one pierre galand tried to launch at belgacom and skynet when they made a multi million dollar deal with esafe , ....

So? He didn’t had the slightest chance of success and Belgacom still bought eSafe’s software. (and Belgacom is half state owned - doesn’t it occur to you that this slightly contradicts your claim about a boycott?)

And since that you know so much about Belgium, you might have noticed that Garland is quite leftwing.

the area around the station has nothing to do with the offices that are standing empty due to the fact that more and more diamond traders are leaving , .....

( bewijs bij kamer van koophandel )

I don’t understand what point you are making there. First of all, the Pelikaanstraat isn’t the centre of the diamond trade in Antwerp, streets like the Hovenierstraat and the Rijfstraat are. Secondly, the area has been problematic for ages, especially after the Rex cinema complex was shut down, so little connection with the recent conflict. And thirdly are you claiming the Antwerp diamond community is boycotting Israel? In that case, you might want to explain what the Jews and the Indians, who have such a large sway over it, are doing it for.

not to mention about the fact that for example keter plastics are being put out of offices at an enormous rate , .....

Interesting… what are keter plastics?

sabca can not renew its contract under pressure from one eddy boutmans , not to mention about the stunt he did last year on the second of november in antwerp , ....

while we are at it , belgium prits books thanks to one eddy boutmans ( the secretary of aide and foreign development ) that dont show israel on its world map , .... and palestine runs from north libanon to the nile , .... (!)

Sabca cannot renew its contract with whom? About what?

Eddy Boutmans can pressure and whine all he likes, few take him or the other greens serious anymore either how.

saying that your unemployment rate is amongst the lowest is not true , 10 million people , 2.7 in the work force and 405 000 are unemployed , ......

cijfers bij de national bank van belgie

I said “employment rate”, without the un- in front. And it is amongst the lowest in the industrialised world. Glad we can agree our labour market is ****ed up although I still don’t get why you brought that up.

the fact remains that we are all in a bad state thanks to a high dollar and thanks to the work of some politicians , ......

I’d rather say you’re in bad state because it’s hard to set up business without the risk it will be blown up the day after by some Palestinian nutcase. And regularly shutting out several hundreds of thousands of labourers probably didn’t do a lot of good to your economy either. (regardless of security concerns)

put the fear of terror and the war in iraq with it and you get what is there today , ...

Should Belgium have opposed the war more strongly then?

imports to belgium

98 mo1 126
99 mo1 105
00 > 189
01 > 216
02 > 195
03> 139 or a drop of 28.7%

export to Israel

98 > 205
99 > 194
00 > 272
01 > 245
02 > 201 or a drop of 19%

all numbers in millions of euro's

Why don’t you go and take a look here: www.cbs.gov.il/fr_trade/d4t6.htm

Both Imports and exports grew by a double digit figure in 2002 compared to 2001, exports to Belgium also grew in the first 3 months of 2003, although imports from Belgium dropped off slightly. And note how much of that is in diamonds: trade in other goods simply is too tiny to seriously affect your economy.

The case against Sharon isn’t on hold, it has been dismissed. And since you know so much about Belgium, you probably know the genocide law was implemented to punish protractors of the Rwandan genocide, who were living in Belgium. Legislators couldn’t foresee that Palestinians would use this law to file a case against Sharon. (or Yarafat and others)

[Az]

Interesting… what are keter plastics?

an Israeli plastics manufacturer. But I thought that bussiness was still going good. They're still shipping a lot to Antwerp, AFAIK.

[Whaleboy]

Could someone explain how the majority of Jews in Israel, a people who, more than anyone else one would expect would realise the value of equality and the fallacy of persecution, are now in favour of unequal rights for the Arabs, and guilty of something of a cultural stereotype of that people.

As a Jew in Britain, I find it perplexing. This nation has had a long history of terrorism, the troubles in Northern Island, yet even on NI, and the vast majority of the mainland, there hasnt been animosity between catholics and other faiths, even though the IRA attacked Britain many times. The places where there was animosity are a few troublesome areas in a few counties of NI, far from the entire nation!

This is surely another obstacle that must be overcome for there to be peace. Objectivity, and the encouragement of objectivity amongst the Israelis and other Jewish circles, is a good way to solve this. Lets engage our theories of mind here people!

[Az]

The amount of violence the IRA has actually carried out in Britian is minute to what has been going on here in the last 3 years. With the participation of some individuals of the arab population in terrorism, people started to mistrust the arab population. It's sad, really, because it's unfair generalization.

Their inequality, is a fact, but is manifested much more than it should be because of shoddy politicians that they elect themselves on basis of tribal and factional loyalty.