The State of the Israeli Democracy 2003

[Eli]

http://www.idi.org.il/english/article.php?id=29773543ee323b0d72ccc5763e07d294

Interesting read.

Some snippets :

The support for encouraging Arab emigration and requiring a Jewish majority for crucial decisions is surprisingly high.

The trust in the prime minister had fallen dramatically from 70% to 53%. The trust in the IDF had also significantly fallen from 97% to 83%, but still is very high.
The Labor Union got a major jump from 31% to 55%.

[Spiffor]

Democratic Culture

- Over the last few years there has been a significant decline in the Jewish population's support of democratic norms on all levels: general support of the democratic system, support of specific democratic values, and support for equal rights for the Arab minority.

- The April 2003 survey returned a twenty year low in the percentage of support for the statement that democracy is the best form of government. Only 77% of the Jewish population thought it was.

- Of 32 countries for which there was data, Israel and Poland ranked lowest in the percentage of citizens (Arabs and Jews) who agreed with the statement that democracy is a desirable form of government.

- Israel (together with Mexico, India and Romania) is only one of 4 countries out of 31 in which the population is of the opinion that "strong leaders can be more useful to the state than all the deliberations and laws."

- As of 2003, more than half (53%) of the Jews in Israel state out loud that they are against full equality for the Arabs; 77% say there should be a Jewish majority on crucial political decisions; less than a third (31%) support having Arab political parties in the government; and the majority (57%) think that the Arabs should be encouraged to emigrate. On all issues there was a dramatic decline in support for democratic norms, compared to 1999.

- Not only is the Jewish population unsupportive of equality for Arab citizens, half of them do not acknowledge that equality doesn't exist in practice; 49% disagree that Israeli Arabs are discriminated against compared with Jews.

[Az]

Nothing surprising here. A steep economic decline, coupled with a worrisome political situation is a sure recipy for such a situation.

[Spiffor]

I didn't know Israel's economy was in trouble... Does it have to do with EU's problems, or are your economic problems caused by an internal situation ?

[Az]

both. The world market, and the high-tech sector are a mess. our PPP per capita dropped to 15,500 USD from ~19,500 USD.

Our financial situation is a mess, because unemployment has risen, so you have to pay more welfare, and companies and individuals are making less money, that is less taxes.

So now, the government wants to make a severe cut in the government spending, which will include cutting the salaries of government workers, that is without the agreement of the tradeunion, and against the agreements with them.

So now, the public sector is on strike. No airtraffic, no ports, no mail, no busses, hospitals are partially functioning, electric utilities are not fixing malfunctions, etc.

But I don't trust the trade union. Their leader is a bastard, which serves the intersts of trade union bosses. Sadly, the guy on the other side of the ring is the Finance Minister, which is a ***** of big bussiness.


I am a political homeless in Israel.

[Felch]

If the jews don't actually control all the money in the world, does that mean the KKK has been lying?

This shatters my worldview in so many ways.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Spiffor
I didn't know Israel's economy was in trouble... Does it have to do with EU's problems, or are your economic problems caused by an internal situation ?

hi ,

yes and no , we have patton on one hand who is calling for a boycott and who is doing with his secretary emma whatever he can to make sure Israeli produts are kept out of the market , ..... going from grape juice and wine to diamonds and white gold , from keter plastics to IMI bullet proof vests , .....

belgium that is the main EU tradepartner with us is to thank for that , ..... again the export and inport has fallen , ..... but they forget one thing , one we have more trade with them then all the arab countries combined , two they cut themselfs with this , .... why , simple , less money means less taxes , .....

down with the belgian and eu boycott people

the position of the dollar versus the euro has also made it hard , together with the global down trend , ....

but things are looking better , one step at the time , .....

have a nice day made in Eretz Israel

[Az]

I don't think that we have more than the entire arab world. But it's much more even than the population numbers, for sure.

[muxec]

I support the idea of unequality of Jewish and Arabian rights in Israel. I'll stop supporting the idea after 20 years with no war and terrorism here.

[Whaleboy]

I think the way to stop the terrorism is to give the arabs and jews equal rights. The Israelis as the developed nation should take the lead in this, instead of engaging in a ***-for-tat escalation of a pointless war, with pointless bloodshed.

The issues and the reasoning behind each side doing what first, are just small little insignificant details. The truth is that this war is good for no-one but arms manufacturers. Lets end it by whatever means necessary, even if that means giving the Palestinians a state in Gaza and the West Bank, and withdrawing Jewish settlements (I visited one 2 years ago, its more like a castle than a society, I got the impression that it was partly there to antagonise the Arabs, it certainly was no place to bring up children...).

Part of the Zionist philosophy is that the Jews will return in PEACE to their biblical homeland, and it is not much of a leap of the imagination to say that this philosophy requires that peace be maintained if at all possible once a state has been established. A valid Palestinian nation is a good way of doing this.

If this means banging the Israeli and Palestinian governments heads together, then so be it, as this is for the future of the region, and international stability. It is too important to get caught up in pathetic issues of pride and honour.

The Israelis should bare in mind that they are the senior partners in this situation, they are a state, richer and better armed than the Palestinians, and more controlled.

The Arabs resort to terrorism not because of some inherrent hatred of the Jews, or because of some irrational disdain towards Western civilisation. They, like all terrorists, do it because they have felt oppressed. I would say that actual oppresion, and the perception of oppression are the same thing to the victim, and certainly one can see by any definition that the Palestinians and Arabs in general, have been oppressed by the West for 50, 200, 800 years.

They are at a tactical disadvantage, and are desperate, in agony as a people, so we should not be suprised if we become victim to their attacks.



I am not for one second justifying their actions, terrorism is abhorrent to me.

I find murder to be morally wrong, and as much as I'd like to see things achieved, I can only use the legitimate means available to me, like writing, speaking, art, voting etc. My opinions are subjective so I cannot justify forcing that onto another subjective viewpoint, by killing people.

However, it would appear that I understand terrorism, unlike the people who seem to think that a knee-jerk, military reaction, accompanied by unhelpful propaganda, is appropriate.

As a Jew, I am perhaps more familiar with concepts of Zionism that some others, as I was brought up with its idealogy, as such, I will quote from Israels Declaration of Independence:

The State of Israel will be open to the immigration of Jews from all countries of their dispersion; will promote the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants [presumably including Arabs]; will be based on the principles of liberty, justice and peace as conceived by the Prophets of Israel; will uphold the full social and political equality of all its citizens, without distinction of religion, race, or sex; will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, education and culture; will safeguard the holy places of all religions; and will loyally uphold the principles of the United Nations Charter [does this include the resolution passed on 1967, calling on Israel to withdraw from the West Bank and Gaza after the 6 day war?].

Perhaps Israel should try to return to these noble words, but that is not an immediate concern, lets stop this needless war first.

[Az]

I would say that actual oppresion, and the perception of oppression are the same thing to the victim, and certainly one can see by any definition that the Palestinians and Arabs in general, have been oppressed by the West for 50, 200, 800 years.

200? only Egypt. ? 800 years?

Elijah, I'll answer your questions later.


muxec

[Whaleboy]

50 (palestinians in Israel)

200 (colonialism impacting on the Muslim world)

800 (the crusades)

Let us not forget the concept of Arab brotherhood. When one attacks one Muslim, it is interpreted as an attack on all Muslims. Dont get bogged down in the issues of nationstates, some cultural forces have the power to transcend them.

[Eli]

Dismantling the settlements(except some small and isolated ones) is simply not practical.

[Ned]

The bit about the leader principle is "interesting" coming from Israel.

However, I fundamentally do not disagree. Great leaders can make an enormous difference. All one has to do, to look back in history, is to contrast Julius Caesar with Honorius.

I suspect the people feel this way because of Sharon. Right?

[Eli]

I suspect the people feel this way because of Sharon. Right?

Yes. He has this image of a serious grandfather... Lebanon is forgotten.

Comparing to other young and reckless leaders, Sharon is on the top. Peres also gets a lot of support.