Cloak & Dagger

[sooooo]

Er, I think PAL just gifted Imperio education.

I would lay strong odds on Imperio researching astronomy right now and will give it to PAL in return.

PAL are currently at a low science rate, presumably to save up 500 gold to give to banana. That seems quite a strange deal to make with banana, since they are effectively giving 500 gold to us too.

[Swiss Pauli]

Checking the trade screen for T146, Imperio got Paper, not Education, from PAL.

[sooooo]

I think Imperio already had paper. If they got education I don't think we would be able to see it?

[Swiss Pauli]

No, they didn't have Paper in the T145 screenshot (see inbox), but they do in the T146 one

And the trade screen is broken as we can see from 'Can Research' that Edu is not there for PAL, but there for Imperio (T146) even though we lack the pre-reqs ourselves.

[mostly-harmless]

T145:

PAL: 2x pop & renaissance tech (Nationalism)
Rabbit: -
Banana: 3x pop
Imperio: medieval tech traded from PAL
Templars: -
RB: 2x pop & land & whip_2

Population census:
PAL 88 (12,12,11,10,9,9,9,6,5,3,2)
RB 58 (11,8,6,6,6,5,5,4,3,2,1,1)
Ban 52 (15,13,9,9,3,2,1)
Imp 47 (10,8,8,8,6,6)
Tem 32 (9,9,6,4,4)
Rab 15 (7,4,2,1,1)

Treasury report:
Templars: 123gold (+34gpt) -25gpt to Imperio
Imperio: 240gold (-21gpt) +25gpt from Temps
PAL: 187gold (+97gpt)
Rab: 50gold (+2gpt)
Banana: 133gold (-10gpt)


Foreign production.

Templars
Jerusalem = 90h (+44)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Lighthouse, Terrace
Damascus = 34h (+34)
Infrastructure: Terrace, Barracks, Forge, Apo Palace
Jericho = 35h (+10)
Infrastructure: Walls, Forge
Acre = 18h (+4)
Infrastructure: Monument



Imperio
Mutal = 80h (+25)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Granary, Monument, Stonehenge, Oracle, Forge
Lakamha = 75h (+22)
Infrastructure: Barracks, Monument, Islamic shrine, Granary
Chichen Itza = 22h (+4)
Infrastructure: Granary, Monument, Lighthouse, Barracks
Uxmal = 77h (+13)
Infrastructure: Monument, Barracks, State of Zeus, Granary
Mayapan = 44h (+9)
Infrastructure: Monument, Barracks, Granary
Calakmul = 0h (-53)
Infrastructure: Monument, Library, Barracks


PAL
The Warning = 118h (+15)
Infrastructure: Granary, Barracks, Lighthouse, Library, Forge, Confucian Temple, Obelisk, Harbor, Academy, Confucian Monastery, Taoist Monastery
Heliopolis = 37h (+15)
Infrastructure: Granary, Barracks, Forge, Library
Alexandria = 44h (+12)
Infrastructure: Granary, Forge, Barracks
Giza = 35h (+1)
Infrastructure: Granary, Lighthouse, Forge, Library
Byblos = 28h (+6)
Infrastructure: Obelisk, Granary, Forge, Barracks
Memphis = 24h (???)
Infrastructure: N/A
Pi-Ramesses = 69h (???)
Infrastructure: N/A
Navajo = 40h (???)
Infrastructure: N/A
Akhetaten = 35h (???)
Infrastructure: N/A

Rabbits
Caerbannog = 45h (+16)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Library, Great Wall
Digger's Burrow = 17h (+8)
Infrastructure: Barracks, Monument, Granary, Walls
Phrygian = 13h (+2)
Infrastructure: none


Banana
Banapolis= 0h
Infrastructure: Palace, Granary, Library, Lighthouse, Forge, The Pyramids, Moai Statues, Harbor
Banana Pudding = 120h (+38)
Infrastructure: Walls, Forge, Monument, Granary, Library, Harbor, Lighthouse, Academy
Banana Split = 109h (+11)
Infrastructure: Walls, Castle, Lighthouse, Granary, Monument
Fried Banana = 0h
Infrastructure: N/A
Doal = 15h (+7)
Infrastructure: none
Omni Point = 6h
Infrastructure: N/A
Foster = 41h
Infrastructure: N/A

mh

[mostly-harmless]

T146:

PAL: 2x pop & whip & whip_3 & whip_3
Rabbit: -
Banana: land
Imperio: pop & land & whip
Templars: -
RB: 2x pop

Population census:
PAL 83 (11,10,10,9,9,9,9,6,5,3,2)
RB 60 (11,8,7,6,6,6,5,4,3,2,1,1)
Ban 52 (15,13,9,9,3,2,1)
Imp 47 (10,8,8,8,6,6)
Tem 32 (9,9,6,4,4)
Rab 15 (7,4,2,1,1)

Treasury report:
Templars: 140gold (+42gpt) -25gpt to Imperio
Imperio: 244gold (-21gpt) +25gpt from Temps
PAL: 336gold (+149gpt)
Rab: 52gold (+2gpt)
Banana: 136gold (+3gpt)


Foreign production.

Templars
Jerusalem = 0h (-90)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Lighthouse, Terrace, Forge
Damascus = 0h (-34)
Infrastructure: Terrace, Barracks, Forge, Apo Palace, Christian Monastery
Jericho = 45h (+10)
Infrastructure: Walls, Forge
Acre = 23h (+5)
Infrastructure: Monument


Templars finished two infrastructure builds in their time of war. Especially the monastery is really useful in their upcoming battle of Jericho.

Imperio
Mutal = 0h (-80)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Granary, Monument, Stonehenge, Oracle, Forge, Library
Lakamha = 0h (-75)
Infrastructure: Barracks, Monument, Islamic shrine, Granary, Library
Chichen Itza = 56h (+34)
Infrastructure: Granary, Monument, Lighthouse, Barracks
Uxmal = 0h (-77)
Infrastructure: Monument, Barracks, State of Zeus, Granary, Ball Court (Colosseum)
Mayapan = 53h (+9)
Infrastructure: Monument, Barracks, Granary
Calakmul = 46h (+46)
Infrastructure: Monument, Library, Barracks, Granary (T145)

That's three Knights for Imperio! Scrap that!!! They went for infrastructure!

PAL
The Warning = 198h (triple whip) Something costing 115hammers. Can't see any new infrastructure. No idea.
Infrastructure: Granary, Barracks, Lighthouse, Library, Forge, Confucian Temple, Obelisk, Harbor, Academy, Confucian Monastery, Taoist Monastery
Heliopolis = 55h (+18)
Infrastructure: Granary, Barracks, Forge, Library
Alexandria = 0h (-44) Unit.
Infrastructure: Granary, Forge, Barracks
Giza = 36h (+1)
Infrastructure: Granary, Lighthouse, Forge, Library
Byblos = 73h (45)
Infrastructure: Obelisk, Granary, Forge, Barracks
Memphis = 48h (+24)
Infrastructure: Granary, Barracks, Forge, Heroic Epic, Moai Statues, Lighthouse, The Great Lighthouse
Pi-Ramesses = 81h (+12)
Infrastructure: Granary, Courthouse, Library, Barracks, Forge, Obelisk
Navajo = 49h (+9)
Infrastructure: Granary
Akhetaten = 40h (+5)
Infrastructure: -


Rabbits
Caerbannog = 0h (-45)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Library, Great Wall
Digger's Burrow = 25h (+8)
Infrastructure: Barracks, Monument, Granary, Walls
Phrygian = 15h (+2)
Infrastructure: none


Banana
Banapolis= 0h
Infrastructure: Palace, Granary, Library, Lighthouse, Forge, The Pyramids, Moai Statues, Harbor, Castle, Pavilion (Theatre)
Banana Pudding = 166h (+46)
Infrastructure: Walls, Forge, Monument, Granary, Library, Harbor, Lighthouse, Academy, Castle, Pavilion (Theatre)
Banana Split = 0h (-109)
Infrastructure: Walls, Castle, Lighthouse, Granary, Monument, Forge
Fried Banana = 56h (+56)
Infrastructure: Granary, Forge, Walls, Hagia Sophia, Pavilion (Theatre)
Doal = 22h (+7)
Infrastructure: none
Omni Point = 7h (+1)
Infrastructure: none
Foster = 45h (+4)
Infrastructure: none

EDIT: Infrastructure for new cities and recent builds included.

mh

[regoarrarr]

What are the possible builds in Jericho? Also could that have been a 90 hammer knight in Jerusalem, or do Templars not have Guilds?

[mostly-harmless]

They don't have guilds. I will look into the possible builds tomorrow ans also update the infrastructure for the new cities we can see.

mh

[mostly-harmless]

Included infrastructure and recent builds (T145-146) into T146 post.

Most important news: Imperio did not get three knights, but infrastructure. Silly me, assuming the three 90hammer builds a few turns after Guilds were Knights during war time.

mh

[Sullla]

First of all, great work mostly_harmless! I can back up that data on infrastructure builds from a look at the Power graph; both Imperio and Templars have flat-lined over the past couple turns. They've barely addded any units at all recently!

This means that our Jericho assumptions are looking really solid right now; my best guess from the Soldier count is that there are not any huge Templar armies hiding in the fog. Maybe a couple of extra units, but not a whole lot of them.

[Sullla]

Soldier count estimation of Templar units, to try and help plan the upcoming attack. This info is also posted in the Operation Joshua thread, but more properly belongs here.



First the numbers on the bar graphs. It should be clear that we've continued to increase our military forces, while Templars and (especially) Imperio have slowed down dramatically. Now for the numbers game:

Templars Soldier Points = 327k

Population: 32 pop points = 16k

Technology: Sailing, Hunting, Mining, Animal Husbandry (2k each) = 8k
Wheel, Alphabet, Metal Casting, Compass, Construction (4k each) = 20k
Mathematics, Archery (6k each) = 12k
Bronze Working, Machinery (8k each) = 16k
Horseback Riding, Iron Working (10k each) = 20k
Total = 76k

City Improvements/Wonders
Jerusalem: Barracks, Forge = 5k
Constantinople: Barracks (?), Forge (?) almost certain = 5k
Damascus: Barracks, Forge = 5k
Jericho: Walls, Forge = 4k
Acre: nothing
Total = 19k

This leaves 216k Soldier points for units.

Visible/Known units:

Quechua in extreme south = 2k

Pink Dot stack:
2 maces (9k each) = 19k
1 horse archer = 6k
2 crossbows (7k each) = 14k
1 sword = 6k
3 cats (5k each) = 15k
3 chariots (4k each) = 12k
1 spear = 4k
Total = 76k

Central stack:
1 crossbow = 7k
1 axe = 5k
Total = 12k

Jericho defense:
1 mace = 9k
1 horse archer = 6k
1 crossbow = 7k
1 axe = 5k
3 spears (4k each) = 12k
Total = 39k

Total visible = 129k
Missing = 87k

Figure 25-30k for defense garrisons in other cities, and that leaves roughly 50-60k worth of units unaccounted for. Templars likely have a moderate-sized stack of units somewhere in their territory, although where is anyone's guess. Hopefully a lot of un-upgraded swords, spears, and axes.

[mostly-harmless]

PAL made a quadruple whip and a single whip. Someone please make a screenshot of the demoscreen and an overview screenshot of PALs lands.
I cannot log into the game for another 36hrs or so. Thanks.

mh

[sunrise089]

Wow, 4-pop whip. I wonder if they're slaving units to crush Rabbits. The timing might work to then turn on Banana when their NAP expires.

[ruff_hi]

a 4-pop whip cannot be for a unit. It generates 120 to 180 hammers (30*1.5, assuming forge and mono). It must be for a wonder or infrastructure.

[T-hawk]

The 4-pop whip could be a unit, if it was whipped from scratch with nothing in the box. Maybe an emergency defender? Can we figure out which city lost 4 pop?

A 4-pop whip could also be a unit if it's a settler (less than 10 hammers in the box and no forge), though that's probably unlikely.