Cloak & Dagger

[Dreylin]

Imperio do have Music (they got it in the Engineering deal with Pal), but would Culture in Uxmal actually help?

[sooooo]

Yes, Imperio does have music.

[T-hawk]

Don't know what is going on in Uxmal, still no hammers in the box since 4 turns. Unless, they use it to build gold or research.

It could be building units every turn, perhaps with overflow from a whip or chops, perhaps cheap units like spies, perhaps by returning to previously paused build orders. Unfortunately that's a lot of possibilities to read through a C&D lens.

Digger's Burrow = 7h (-48) A 60h unit. A worker?
Infrastructure: Barracks, Monument, Granary, Walls
Phrygian = 2h (-19) An archer I guess.
Infrastructure: none

Remember that any change from a larger hammer number to a smaller hammer number without spending a turn at 0 hammers must be a build swap. Digger's Burrow must have either finished the 55h item and resumed a previous 7h build (more likely), or else paused the 55h item and put one turn into the current 7h build.

[mostly-harmless]

T139:

PAL: -
Rabbit: -
Banana: pop
Imperio: land
Templars: -
RB: pop & land

Population census:
PAL 72 (12,11,9,9,8,7,6,5,2,2,1)
RB 56 (10,8,7,7,6,5,5,5,2,1)
Imp 41 (10,8,6,6,6,5)
Ban 41 (12,11,7,7,3,1)
Tem 30 (9,8,6,4,3)
Rab 12 (6,3,1,1,1)

Treasury report:
Templars: 80gold (-123gpt) -25gpt to Imperio
Imperio: 168gold (-25gpt) +25gpt from Temps & +4gpt from Rabbits
PAL: 180gold (-117gpt)
Rab: 138gold (+7gpt) -4gpt to Imperio
Banana: 177gold (-30gpt)

That seems to be an unit upgrade from Templars, as I don't think their little civ can burn through that much cash in one turn at 100% science.

Foreign production.

Templars
Jerusalem = 0h
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks
Damascus = 0h
Infrastructure: Terrace, Barracks, Forge, Apo Palace
Jericho = 80h (+18)
Infrastructure: Walls
Acre = 0h
Infrastructure: Monument

Jerusalem finished a 70h unit = mace.
Jericho is building something with a double modifier. Could be a forge. A castle is unlikely, as I don't hink Templars have stone ("Their" stone is still unclaimed east of SF).
Damaskus finished a unit in the 70-80h region = mace.
Acre finished a unit in th 25-30h region.

Imperio
Mutal = 66h (+20)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Granary, Monument, Stonehenge, Oracle
Lakamha = 0
Infrastructure: Barracks, Monument, Islamic shrine, Granary
Chichen Itza = 38h (+4)
Infrastructure: Granary, Monument, Lighthouse, Barracks
Uxmal = 11h (+11)
Infrastructure: Monument, Barracks, State of Zeus, Granary
Mayapan = 29h (+11)
Infrastructure: Monument, Barracks, Granary
Calakmul = 38h (+10)
Infrastructure: Monument, Library, Barracks

Lakamha, another mace probably.

PAL
The Warning = 33h (+14)
Infrastructure: Granary, Barracks, Lighthouse, Library, Forge, Confucian Temple, Obelisk, Harbor, Academy, Confucian Monastery, Taoist Monastery
Heliopolis = 54h (+15)
Infrastructure: Granary, Barracks, Forge
Alexandria = 22h (+22)
Infrastructure: Granary, Forge
Giza = 21h (+1)
Infrastructure: Granary, Lighthouse, Forge, Library
Byblos = 11h (-2)
Infrastructure: Obelisk, Granary, Forge

Byblos got double whipped last turn, and we see a forge.

Rabbits
Caerbannog = 0h
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Library, Great Wall
Digger's Burrow = 11h (+4)
Infrastructure: Barracks, Monument, Granary, Walls
Phrygian = 4h (+2)
Infrastructure: none


Banana
Banapolis= 35h (+-0)
Infrastructure: Palace, Granary, Library, Lighthouse, Forge, The Pyramids, Moai Statues
Doal = 18h (+4)
Infrastructure: none

Not sure why there was no change for Banapolis.
Anyway, prior to Moai, they only made 3hpt. Not really a surprise, as we knew about their watery start from C&D but still, an impressive infrastructure for such small production.

mh

[sunrise089]

@M_H - Templars upgraded a CR Sword to a Mace.

[mostly-harmless]

Thanks, sunrise. So we interpreted that correctly.

mh

[mostly-harmless]

T140:

PAL: 6x pop & land points & whip_1
Rabbit: -
Banana: pop & pop
Imperio: pop & whip_1
Templars: medieval tech traded for (Engineering gifted from Imperio)
RB: land & whip_1 & whip_1 & whip_2

Population census:
PAL 77 (12,11,10,10,8,8,7,6,2,2,1)
RB 52 (10,7,7,6,6,5,4,4,2,1)
Ban 43 (12,12,8,7,3,1)
Imp 41 (10,8,6,6,6,5)
Tem 30 (9,8,6,4,3)
Rab 12 (6,3,1,1,1)

Banana surpasses Imperio in population. Well done!

Treasury report:
Templars: 55gold (0gpt) -25gpt to Imperio
Imperio: 172gold (-25gpt) +25gpt from Temps & +4gpt from Rabbits
PAL: 62gold (-118gpt)
Rab: 138gold (+4gpt) -4gpt to Imperio
Banana: 82gold (-95gpt)


Foreign production.

Templars
Jerusalem = 0h
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks
Damascus = 0h
Infrastructure: Terrace, Barracks, Forge, Apo Palace
Jericho = 80h (+18)
Infrastructure: Walls
Acre = 0h
Infrastructure: Monument

Templars spent a turn in anarchy.
I venture a careful guess that Templars output ~38hpt when on military units. This is excluding Constantinople of course.

Imperio
Mutal = 86h (+20)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Granary, Monument, Stonehenge, Oracle
Lakamha = 63h (+63)
Infrastructure: Barracks, Monument, Islamic shrine, Granary
Chichen Itza = 42h (+4)
Infrastructure: Granary, Monument, Lighthouse, Barracks
Uxmal = 20h (+9)
Infrastructure: Monument, Barracks, State of Zeus, Granary
Mayapan = 37h (+8)
Infrastructure: Monument, Barracks, Granary
Calakmul = 45h (+7)
Infrastructure: Monument, Library, Barracks

I venture a careful guess that the whole of the Imperio civ outputs around 70hpt. If all of it is steered towards military units (which we should assume), Cape Town cannot cope.

PAL
The Warning = 47h (+14)
Infrastructure: Granary, Barracks, Lighthouse, Library, Forge, Confucian Temple, Obelisk, Harbor, Academy, Confucian Monastery, Taoist Monastery
Heliopolis = 69h (+15)
Infrastructure: Granary, Barracks, Forge
Alexandria = 34h (+12)
Infrastructure: Granary, Forge
Giza = 22h (+1)
Infrastructure: Granary, Lighthouse, Forge, Library
Byblos = 13h (+2) (also got whipped 1 pop later in the turn)
Infrastructure: Obelisk, Granary, Forge


Rabbits
Caerbannog = 14h (+14)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Library, Great Wall
Digger's Burrow = 17h (+6)
Infrastructure: Barracks, Monument, Granary, Walls
Phrygian = 6h (+2)
Infrastructure: none


Banana
Banapolis= 44h (+9)
Infrastructure: Palace, Granary, Library, Lighthouse, Forge, The Pyramids, Moai Statues
Doal = 22h (+4)
Infrastructure: none

I have to correct my statement from last turn. There is on of those unusual stone on a grassland tiles, so Banapolis had a bit more production than 3hpt prior to Moai.


mh

[mostly-harmless]

T141:

PAL: -
Rabbit: land points
Banana: pop
Imperio: pop & pop
Templars: -
RB: 4x pop

Population census:
PAL 77 (12,11,10,10,8,8,7,6,2,2,1)
RB 56 (11,7,7,7,6,5,5,4,2,2)
Ban 44 (12,12,8,8,3,1)
Imp 43 (10,8,7,7,6,5)
Tem 30 (9,8,6,4,3)
Rab 12 (6,3,1,1,1)

Treasury report:
Templars: 75gold (+45gpt) -25gpt to Imperio
Imperio: 187gold (-14gpt) +25gpt from Temps & +4gpt from Rabbits
PAL: 192gold (+130gpt)
Rab: 144gold (+10gpt) -4gpt to Imperio
Banana: 93gold (+11gpt)


Foreign production.

Templars
Jerusalem = 24h (+24)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks
Damascus = 0h
Infrastructure: Terrace, Barracks, Forge, Apo Palace
Jericho = 98h (+18)
Infrastructure: Walls
Acre = 2h (+2)
Infrastructure: Monument

I would say that Jericho is either on a Castle or Forge. Jerusalem likewise. Damaskus builds gold?

Imperio
Mutal = 106h (+20)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Granary, Monument, Stonehenge, Oracle
Lakamha = 86h (+23)
Infrastructure: Barracks, Monument, Islamic shrine, Granary
Chichen Itza = 0h
Infrastructure: Granary, Monument, Lighthouse, Barracks
Uxmal = 29h (+9)
Infrastructure: Monument, Barracks, State of Zeus, Granary
Mayapan = 8h (+8)
Infrastructure: Monument, Barracks, Granary
Calakmul = 0h
Infrastructure: Monument, Library, Barracks

Mutal and Lakamha must be on Infrastructure. Chichen Itza got an Maceman. Mayapan an unit in the 40h range. Calakmul a unit in the 50h range.

PAL
The Warning = 61h (+14)
Infrastructure: Granary, Barracks, Lighthouse, Library, Forge, Confucian Temple, Obelisk, Harbor, Academy, Confucian Monastery, Taoist Monastery
Heliopolis = 80h (+11)
Infrastructure: Granary, Barracks, Forge
Alexandria = 46h (+12)
Infrastructure: Granary, Forge
Giza = 25h (+3)
Infrastructure: Granary, Lighthouse, Forge, Library
Byblos = 11h
Infrastructure: Obelisk, Granary, Forge, Barracks

Byblos got whipped last turn to create a Barracks.

Rabbits
Caerbannog = 27h (+13)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Library, Great Wall
Digger's Burrow = 25h (+8)
Infrastructure: Barracks, Monument, Granary, Walls
Phrygian = 8h (+2)
Infrastructure: none


Banana
Banapolis= 41h (-3)
Infrastructure: Palace, Granary, Library, Lighthouse, Forge, The Pyramids, Moai Statues
Banana Pudding = 35h (?)
Infrastructure: Walls, Forge, Monument, Granary, Library, Harbor, Lighthouse, Academy
Doal = 26h (+4)
Infrastructure: none

No idea about Bananpolis.
First sight into Banana Pudding. Impressive infrastructure.


mh

[mostly-harmless]

T142:

PAL: 2 x pop & wonder (Mausoleum) & wonder (Kong)
Rabbit: pop
Banana: city [Foster NW of Doal]
Imperio: land
Templars: -
RB: 3x pop

Population census:
PAL 79 (12,11,10,10,8,8,8,6,3,2,1)
RB 53 (11,7,6,6,5,5,5,4,2,2)
Ban 45 (12,12,8,8,3,1,1)
Imp 43 (10,8,7,7,6,5)
Tem 30 (9,8,6,4,3)
Rab 13 (6,4,1,1,1)

Treasury report:
Templars: 92gold (+42gpt) -25gpt to Imperio
Imperio: 199gold (-13gpt) +25gpt from Temps
PAL: 328gold (+136gpt)
Rab: 148gold (+4gpt)
Banana: 104gold (+11gpt)


Foreign production.

Templars
Jerusalem = 48h (+24)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks
Damascus = 25h (+25)
Infrastructure: Terrace, Barracks, Forge, Apo Palace
Jericho = 116h (+18)
Infrastructure: Walls
Acre = 6h (+4)
Infrastructure: Monument


I would say that Jericho is on a Forge. Jerusalem likewise.

Imperio
Mutal = 0h (Forge)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Granary, Monument, Stonehenge, Oracle, Forge
Lakamha = 0h (hmmmm, a settler? nothing else is that costly)
Infrastructure: Barracks, Monument, Islamic shrine, Granary
Chichen Itza = 10h (+10)
Infrastructure: Granary, Monument, Lighthouse, Barracks
Uxmal = 16h (-15) workboat with overflow going into a double modifier item
Infrastructure: Monument, Barracks, State of Zeus, Granary
Mayapan = 17h (+9)
Infrastructure: Monument, Barracks, Granary
Calakmul = 18h (+18)
Infrastructure: Monument, Library, Barracks

PAL
The Warning = 73h (+12)
Infrastructure: Granary, Barracks, Lighthouse, Library, Forge, Confucian Temple, Obelisk, Harbor, Academy, Confucian Monastery, Taoist Monastery
Heliopolis = 0h (Library)
Infrastructure: Granary, Barracks, Forge, Library
Alexandria = 0h (Barracks)
Infrastructure: Granary, Forge, Barracks
Giza = 28h (+3)
Infrastructure: Granary, Lighthouse, Forge, Library
Byblos = 14h (+3)
Infrastructure: Obelisk, Granary, Forge, Barracks


Rabbits
Caerbannog = 0h ??? who cares
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Library, Great Wall
Digger's Burrow = 33h (+8)
Infrastructure: Barracks, Monument, Granary, Walls
Phrygian = 9h (+1)
Infrastructure: none


Banana
Banapolis= 69h (+28)
Infrastructure: Palace, Granary, Library, Lighthouse, Forge, The Pyramids, Moai Statues
Banana Pudding = 0h
Infrastructure: Walls, Forge, Monument, Granary, Library, Harbor, Lighthouse, Academy
Doal = 0h (workboat for Foster?)
Infrastructure: none

No idea about Banapolis.


mh

[mostly-harmless]

T143:

PAL: 4x pop
Rabbit: pop
Banana: pop
Imperio: techM (Guilds) & pop
Templars: 2x pop
RB: 3x pop

Population census:
PAL 83 (12,12,11,10,8,8,8,6,4,2,2)
RB 56 (11,7,6,6,6,5,5,5,3,2)
Ban 46 (13,12,8,8,3,1,1)
Imp 44 (10,8,7,7,6,6)
Tem 32 (9,9,6,4,4)
Rab 14 (7,4,1,1,1)

Treasury report:
Templars: 109gold (+42gpt) -25gpt to Imperio
Imperio: 225gold (+1gpt) +25gpt from Temps
PAL: 210gold (-118gpt)
Rab: 148gold (0gpt)
Banana: 243gold (+139gpt) aborted MoM cash


Foreign production.

Templars
Jerusalem = 0h (Lighthouse or Terrace)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Lighthouse, Terrace
Damascus = 50h (+25)
Infrastructure: Terrace, Barracks, Forge, Apo Palace
Jericho = 9h (Forge)
Infrastructure: Walls, Forge
Acre = 10h (+4)
Infrastructure: Monument

I had a closer look at the fog around Jerusalem and spotted both buildings. One of it was finished this turn.

Imperio
Mutal = 30h (+30)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Granary, Monument, Stonehenge, Oracle, Forge
Lakamha = 31h (+31)
Infrastructure: Barracks, Monument, Islamic shrine, Granary
Chichen Itza = 14h (+4)
Infrastructure: Granary, Monument, Lighthouse, Barracks
Uxmal = 55h (+39) a chop ?
Infrastructure: Monument, Barracks, State of Zeus, Granary
Mayapan = 26h (+9)
Infrastructure: Monument, Barracks, Granary
Calakmul = 32h (+14)
Infrastructure: Monument, Library, Barracks

PAL
The Warning = 88h (+15)
Infrastructure: Granary, Barracks, Lighthouse, Library, Forge, Confucian Temple, Obelisk, Harbor, Academy, Confucian Monastery, Taoist Monastery
Heliopolis = 11h (+11)
Infrastructure: Granary, Barracks, Forge, Library
Alexandria = 20h (+20)
Infrastructure: Granary, Forge, Barracks
Giza = 31h (+3)
Infrastructure: Granary, Lighthouse, Forge, Library
Byblos = 16h (+2)
Infrastructure: Obelisk, Granary, Forge, Barracks


Rabbits
Caerbannog = 13h (+13)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Library, Great Wall
Digger's Burrow = 0h (~40h unit?)
Infrastructure: Barracks, Monument, Granary, Walls
Phrygian = 10h (+1)
Infrastructure: none


Banana
Banapolis= 0h (Harbor)
Infrastructure: Palace, Granary, Library, Lighthouse, Forge, The Pyramids, Moai Statues, Harbor
Banana Pudding = 44h (+44)
Infrastructure: Walls, Forge, Monument, Granary, Library, Harbor, Lighthouse, Academy
Banana Split = 87h (?)
Infrastructure: Walls, Castle, Lighthouse, Granary, Monument
Doal = 4h (+4)
Infrastructure: none

Never seen a castle before.

mh

[mostly-harmless]

Question:
As these stats take ages to analyse, is there actually anyone reading it?
What is useful?
What could I leave away?

mh

[sooooo]

Congratulations to Imperio for building their first forge . Have templars honestly not built a single granary yet? Even for them ...

With PAL getting nationalism next turn we should be on the lookout for which city they are building the Taj Mahal in. Watch out for whips this turn to overflow into the wonder. If we can't detect it, we should ask banana to give us the data for the other cities.

Also we can see into Banana Split now.

[mostly-harmless]

Terraces are their UB replacing the granary. They have 3 of them.

Banana Split is already included.

mh

[Swiss Pauli]

I read it too.

With Templars having Apostolic Palace, they can try stop the war with a vote. I think we can defy for -5 in Pink, our only Christian city. Is this correct?

And maybe Imperio is trying to sucker us onto them for double WW from Statue of Zeus? I've no idea how effective this wonder could be in the context of this game. Anyone have an idea?

[sooooo]

Question:
As these stats take ages to analyse, is there actually anyone reading it?
What is useful?
What could I leave away?

Yes, I read it, it's very good.

Terraces are their UB replacing the granary. They have 3 of them.

Ahhhh, fair enough.

Banana Split is already included.

Yeah sorry, I was reading the T142 data.