Cloak & Dagger

[Dreylin]

Could that have been the Taj they whipped, or have they not had Nationalism long enough to have mm'd that short of a build?

[ruff_hi]

whips only generate 15 base hammers for wonders. And why whip it - it is not as if we even have Nationalism yet. Does any other team have it?

[sunrise089]

I've 4-pop whipped knights plenty of times...though I still suspect they'll wait for MilTrad before whipping 2-movers.

[mostly-harmless]

Can we figure out which city lost 4 pop?

YEs, if someone pleaselogin and make the required screenshots (demoscreen and PAL territory).

mh

[Swiss Pauli]

I'll take the necessary screenshots tonight.

I suspect PAL is whipping Universities in order to get started on Oxford ASAP.

[Swiss Pauli]

Screenshots in our inbox

[mostly-harmless]

Single whip in Navajo (now size 3).
Quadruple whip in Giza (the city with no production, now size 6).

So I don't think any of the overflows goes into the Taj.

mh

[mostly-harmless]

T147:

PAL: 5x pop & whip_1 & whip_4
Rabbit: -
Banana: pop
Imperio: 2x pop
Templars: -
RB: 2x pop & wonder & land

Population census:
PAL 83 (12,11,10,10,9,9,6,6,5,3,2)
RB 62 (11,8,7,6,6,6,5,5,3,3,1,1)
Ban 53 (15,13,10,9,3,2,1)
Imp 49 (10,9,9,8,6,6,1)
Tem 33 (9,9,6,5,4)
Rab 15 (7,4,2,1,1)

Foreign production.

Templars
Jerusalem = 19h (+19)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Lighthouse, Terrace, Forge
Damascus = 27h (+27)
Infrastructure: Terrace, Barracks, Forge, Apo Palace, Christian Monastery
Jericho = 53h (+8)
Infrastructure: Walls, Forge
Acre = 28h (+5)
Infrastructure: Monument



Imperio
Mutal = 72h (+72)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Granary, Monument, Stonehenge, Oracle, Forge, Library
Lakamha = 58h (+58)
Infrastructure: Barracks, Monument, Islamic shrine, Granary, Library
Chichen Itza = 0h (-56) Galley
Infrastructure: Granary, Monument, Lighthouse, Barracks
Uxmal = 23h (+23)
Infrastructure: Monument, Barracks, State of Zeus, Granary, Ball Court (Colosseum)
Mayapan = 37h (-???)
Infrastructure: Monument, Barracks, Granary
Calakmul = 56h (+10)
Infrastructure: Monument, Library, Barracks, Granary


PAL
The Warning = 118h
Infrastructure: Granary, Barracks, Lighthouse, Library, Forge, Confucian Temple, Obelisk, Harbor, Academy, Confucian Monastery, Taoist Monastery
Heliopolis = 73h (+18)
Infrastructure: Granary, Barracks, Forge, Library
Alexandria = 17h (+17)
Infrastructure: Granary, Forge, Barracks
Giza = 37h (+1)
Infrastructure: Granary, Lighthouse, Forge, Library
Byblos = 0h (-73)
Infrastructure: Obelisk, Granary, Forge, Barracks
Memphis = 0h (-48)
Infrastructure: Granary, Barracks, Forge, Heroic Epic, Moai Statues, Lighthouse, The Great Lighthouse
Pi-Ramesses = 88h (+7)
Infrastructure: Granary, Courthouse, Library, Barracks, Forge, Obelisk
Navajo = 60h (+11)
Infrastructure: Granary
Akhetaten = 0h (-40)
Infrastructure: -


Rabbits
Caerbannog = 27h (+27)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Library, Great Wall
Digger's Burrow = 33h (+8)
Infrastructure: Barracks, Monument, Granary, Walls
Phrygian = 17h (+2)
Infrastructure: none


Banana
Banapolis= 52h (+52)
Infrastructure: Palace, Granary, Library, Lighthouse, Forge, The Pyramids, Moai Statues, Harbor, Castle, Pavilion (Theatre)
Banana Pudding = 212h (+46)
Infrastructure: Walls, Forge, Monument, Granary, Library, Harbor, Lighthouse, Academy, Castle, Pavilion (Theatre)
Banana Split = 12h (+12)
Infrastructure: Walls, Castle, Lighthouse, Granary, Monument, Forge
Fried Banana = 0h (-56)
Infrastructure: Granary, Forge, Walls, Hagia Sophia, Pavilion (Theatre)
Doal = 26h (+4)
Infrastructure: none
Omni Point = 8h (+1)
Infrastructure: none
Foster = 49h (+4)
Infrastructure: none

EDIT: Infrastructure update see next turn.

mh

[mostly-harmless]

T148:

PAL: 3x pop & whip_1
Rabbit: 2x pop
Banana: pop & wonder
Imperio: -
Templars: pop
RB: pop & land & whip_1

Population census:
PAL 85 (12,11,11,10,9,9,7,6,4,4,2)
RB 62 (11,7,7,6,6,6,6,5,3,3,1,1)
Ban 54 (15,13,10,9,4,2,1)
Imp 49 (10,9,9,8,6,6,1)
Tem 34 (9,9,7,5,4)
Rab 17 (7,4,2,2,2)

Foreign production.

Templars
Jerusalem = 36h (+17)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Lighthouse, Terrace, Forge
Damascus = 0h (-27)
Infrastructure: Terrace, Barracks, Forge, Apo Palace, Christian Monastery
Jericho = 0h (-53)
Infrastructure: Walls, Forge
Acre = 36h (+8)
Infrastructure: Monument



Imperio
Mutal = 117h (+45)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Granary, Monument, Stonehenge, Oracle, Forge, Library
Lakamha = 106h (+48)
Infrastructure: Barracks, Monument, Islamic shrine, Granary, Library
Chichen Itza = 14h (+14)
Infrastructure: Granary, Monument, Lighthouse, Barracks
Uxmal = 37h (+14)
Infrastructure: Monument, Barracks, State of Zeus, Granary, Ball Court (Colosseum)
Mayapan = 0h (-???)
Infrastructure: Monument, Barracks, Granary, Lighthouse
Calakmul = 0h (-56)
Infrastructure: Monument, Library, Barracks, Granary, Islamic Monastery

More infrastructure from Imperio.

PAL
The Warning = 186h (+68)
Infrastructure: Granary, Barracks, Lighthouse, Library, Forge, Confucian Temple, Obelisk, Harbor, Academy, Confucian Monastery, Taoist Monastery, Grocer
Heliopolis = 91h (+18)
Infrastructure: Granary, Barracks, Forge, Library
Alexandria = 29h (+12)
Infrastructure: Granary, Forge, Barracks
Giza = 0h (-???)
Infrastructure: Granary, Lighthouse, Forge, Library, University
Byblos = 21h (+21)
Infrastructure: Obelisk, Granary, Forge, Barracks
Memphis = 36h (+36)
Infrastructure: Granary, Barracks, Forge, Heroic Epic, Moai Statues, Lighthouse, The Great Lighthouse
Pi-Ramesses = 100h (+12)
Infrastructure: Granary, Courthouse, Library, Barracks, Forge, Obelisk
Navajo = 0h (-60)
Infrastructure: Granary, Forge
Akhetaten = 100h (+100)
Infrastructure: Granary


Rabbits
Caerbannog = 0h
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Library, Great Wall, Lighthouse
Digger's Burrow = 0h
Infrastructure: Barracks, Monument, Granary, Walls
Phrygian = 0h
Infrastructure: Monument


Banana
Banapolis= 0h (-52)
Infrastructure: Palace, Granary, Library, Lighthouse, Forge, The Pyramids, Moai Statues, Harbor, Walls, Castle, Pavilion (Theatre)
Banana Pudding = 0h (-212)
Infrastructure: Walls, Forge, Monument, Granary, Library, Harbor, Lighthouse, Academy, Castle, Pavilion (Theatre), National Epic
Banana Split = 24h (+12)
Infrastructure: Walls, Castle, Lighthouse, Granary, Monument, Forge
Fried Banana = 22h (+22)
Infrastructure: Granary, Forge, Walls, Hagia Sophia, Pavilion (Theatre), Castle
Doal = 0h (-26)
Infrastructure: none
Omni Point = 9h (+1)
Infrastructure: none
Foster = 0h (-49)
Infrastructure: Pavilion (Theatre)


mh

[Sullla]

Soldier Count update for Imperio!

As of last turn (T148), Imperio soldier count was 384 and Templars were still at 318k. Our Soldier count was 492k (which increased to 522k this turn with triple knight builds! We will get a major power increase on the graph next turn.) On the current turn (T149), Imperio did not increase their Soldier count, so they did not build any new units this turn. We will have to wait until next turn to see the Templar response. They added a crossbow in Jericho, but that may have been moved into the city, not trained there.

Imperio Soldier Points = 384k

Population: 49 pop points = 24k

Technology: Sailing, Hunting, Mining, Animal Husbandry (2k each) = 8k
Wheel, Alphabet, Metal Casting, Compass, Construction (4k each) = 20k
Mathematics, Archery (6k each) = 12k
Guilds, Bronze Working, Machinery (8k each) = 24k
Horseback Riding, Iron Working (10k each) = 20k
Total = 84k

City Improvements/Wonders
Mutal: Barracks (3k), Forge (2k) = 5k
Lakamha: Barracks (3k) = 3k
Chichen Itza: Barracks (3k) = 3k
Uxmal: Barracks (3k), Statue of Zeus (4k) = 7k
Mayapan: Barracks (3k) = 3k
Calakmul: Barracks (3k) = 3k
Total = 24k

This leaves 252k Soldier points for units.

Visible/Known units:

Chichen Itza defense
1 mace = 9k
1 pike = 6k
6 longbows (6k each) = 36k
1 galley = 2k
Total = 53k

Imperio main stack
6 maces (9k each) = 54k
3 elephants (8k each) = 24k
4 horse archers (6k each) = 24k
2 pikes (6k each) = 12k
11 cats (5k each) = 55k
Total = 169k

Total = 222k

This only leaves 30k available for garrison duty, which isn't even enough for one longbow per city. We can therefore state with extremely high certainty (99%) that Imperio has no other attack force. So long as we keep visual contact on their main giant stack, we can stay one step ahead of them.

Needless to say, this is extremely good news! Furthermore, I slightly overestimated Templar military strength in my previous C&D analysis. I was using the data for the current turn with the bar graphs instead of the data for the past turn, and this led to a minor error. As I said at the top of this post, the Templar Soldier count is actually 318k, and not 327k as I estimated previously. This means that we are missing about 75k worth of units, which - while still formidable - is not as bad we had feared. If 30k of that is tied up in garrisons, we are looking at 40-50k worth of units in the Templars mobile reserve. Guess we'll find out what they have in reserve soon enough...

[sunrise089]

This is very very useful Sullla. Thanks much.

[sooooo]

Banana settled another city this turn. Also, their score and GNP are both now higher than Imperio . It's too bad they won't live. But then again, who does?

[mostly-harmless]

T149:

PAL: 2x pop & whip_1 & whip_1
Rabbit: pop
Banana: 2x pop & new city & medieval tech learned (Bank) & renaissance tech traded for (Nationalism)
Imperio: lost land points
Templars: lost city
RB: 2x pop & city captured & renaissance tech learned & whip_2

Population census:
PAL 85 (12,11,11,10,9,9,7,6,5,3,2)
RB 65 (11,8,6,6,6,6,5,5,4,3,3,1,1)
Ban 57 (16,13,10,10,4,2,1,1)
Imp 49 (10,9,9,8,6,6,1)
Tem 30 (9,9,7,5)
Rab 18 (7,5,2,2,2)

Foreign production.

Templars
Jerusalem = 60h (+24)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Lighthouse, Terrace, Forge
Damascus = 23h (+23)
Infrastructure: Terrace, Barracks, Forge, Apo Palace, Christian Monastery
Acre = 44h (+8)
Infrastructure: Monument



Imperio
Mutal = 162h (+45)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Granary, Monument, Stonehenge, Oracle, Forge, Library
Lakamha = 154h (+48)
Infrastructure: Barracks, Monument, Islamic shrine, Granary, Library
Chichen Itza = 18h (+14)
Infrastructure: Granary, Monument, Lighthouse, Barracks
Uxmal = 51h (+14)
Infrastructure: Monument, Barracks, State of Zeus, Granary, Ball Court (Colosseum)
Mayapan = 10h (+10)
Infrastructure: Monument, Barracks, Granary, Lighthouse
Calakmul = 16h (+16)
Infrastructure: Monument, Library, Barracks, Granary, Islamic Monastery


PAL
The Warning = 196h (+10)
Infrastructure: Granary, Barracks, Lighthouse, Library, Forge, Confucian Temple, Obelisk, Harbor, Academy, Confucian Monastery, Taoist Monastery, Grocer
Heliopolis = 109h (+18)
Infrastructure: Granary, Barracks, Forge, Library
Alexandria = 44h (+15)
Infrastructure: Granary, Forge, Barracks
Giza = 53h (+53)
Infrastructure: Granary, Lighthouse, Forge, Library, University
Byblos = 0h (-21)
Infrastructure: Obelisk, Granary, Forge, Barracks
Memphis = 0h (-36)
Infrastructure: Granary, Barracks, Forge, Heroic Epic, Moai Statues, Lighthouse, The Great Lighthouse
Pi-Ramesses = 112h (+12)
Infrastructure: Granary, Courthouse, Library, Barracks, Forge, Obelisk
Navajo = 50h (+50)
Infrastructure: Granary, Forge
Akhetaten = 110h (+10)
Infrastructure: Granary


Rabbits
Caerbannog = 32h (+32)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Library, Great Wall, Lighthouse
Digger's Burrow = 9h (+9)
Infrastructure: Barracks, Monument, Granary, Walls
Phrygian = 7h (+7)
Infrastructure: Monument


Banana
Banapolis= 0h (-0)
Infrastructure: Palace, Granary, Library, Lighthouse, Forge, The Pyramids, Moai Statues, Harbor, Walls, Castle, Pavilion (Theatre)
Banana Pudding = 13h (+13)
Infrastructure: Walls, Forge, Monument, Granary, Library, Harbor, Lighthouse, Academy, Castle, Pavilion (Theatre), National Epic
Banana Split = 31h (+7)
Infrastructure: Walls, Castle, Lighthouse, Granary, Monument, Forge
Fried Banana = 43h (+21)
Infrastructure: Granary, Forge, Walls, Hagia Sophia, Pavilion (Theatre), Castle
Doal = 7h (+7)
Infrastructure: none
Omni Point = 10h (+1)
Infrastructure: none
Foster = 0h (-0)
Infrastructure: Pavilion (Theatre)

Infrastructure builds updated with next turn.

mh

[mostly-harmless]

T150:

PAL: 4x pop & whip_1 & whip_2 & whip_3 & whip_3
Rabbit: -
Banana: pop
Imperio: 3x pop
Templars: -
RB: land

Population census:
PAL 80 (12,11,10,8,8,7,7,6,5,4,2)
RB 65 (11,8,6,6,6,6,5,5,4,3,3,1,1)
Ban 58 (16,13,11,10,4,2,1,1)
Imp 52 (10,10,10,8,7,6,1)
Tem 30 (9,9,7,5)
Rab 18 (7,5,2,2,2)

Foreign production.

Templars
Jerusalem = 0h (-60)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Lighthouse, Terrace, Forge
Constantinople = 0h (-??)
Infrastructure: Terrace, Barracks, Christian Monastery, Forge
Damascus = 0h (-23)
Infrastructure: Terrace, Barracks, Forge, Apo Palace, Christian Monastery
Acre = 0h (-44)
Infrastructure: Monument, Barracks


Looks like a round of units for Templars.

Imperio
Mutal = 234h (+72)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Granary, Monument, Stonehenge, Oracle, Forge, Library
Lakamha = 226h (+72)
Infrastructure: Barracks, Monument, Islamic shrine, Granary, Library
Chichen Itza = 25h (+7)
Infrastructure: Granary, Monument, Lighthouse, Barracks
Uxmal = 0h (-51)
Infrastructure: Monument, Barracks, State of Zeus, Granary, Ball Court (Colosseum)
Mayapan = 30h (+20)
Infrastructure: Monument, Barracks, Granary, Lighthouse
Calakmul = 34h (+18)
Infrastructure: Monument, Library, Barracks, Granary, Islamic Monastery

Mutal and Lakamha on some costly infrastructure.

PAL
The Warning = 10h (-186)
Infrastructure: Granary, Barracks, Lighthouse, Library, Forge, Confucian Temple, Obelisk, Harbor, Academy, Confucian Monastery, Taoist Monastery, Grocer
Heliopolis = 127h (+18)
Infrastructure: Granary, Barracks, Forge, Library
Alexandria = 39h (-5)
Infrastructure: Granary, Forge, Barracks
Giza = 0h (-53)
Infrastructure: Granary, Lighthouse, Forge, Library, University
Byblos = 22h (+22)
Infrastructure: Obelisk, Granary, Forge, Barracks, Lighthouse
Memphis = 36h (+36)
Infrastructure: Granary, Barracks, Forge, Heroic Epic, Moai Statues, Lighthouse, The Great Lighthouse
Pi-Ramesses = 124h (+12)
Infrastructure: Granary, Courthouse, Library, Barracks, Forge, Obelisk
Navajo = 0h (-50)
Infrastructure: Granary, Forge
Akhetaten = 0h (-110)
Infrastructure: Granary, Forge

The Warning built something, but I can't spot what.
A few units in a couple of other cities.

Rabbits
Caerbannog = 60h (+28)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Library, Great Wall, Lighthouse
Digger's Burrow = 17h (+8)
Infrastructure: Barracks, Monument, Granary, Walls
Phrygian = 9h (+2)
Infrastructure: Monument


Banana
Banapolis= 77h (+77)
Infrastructure: Palace, Granary, Library, Lighthouse, Forge, The Pyramids, Moai Statues, Harbor, Walls, Castle, Pavilion (Theatre)
Banana Pudding = 34h (+21)
Infrastructure: Walls, Forge, Monument, Granary, Library, Harbor, Lighthouse, Academy, Castle, Pavilion (Theatre), National Epic
Banana Split = 43h (+12)
Infrastructure: Walls, Castle, Lighthouse, Granary, Monument, Forge
Fried Banana = 0h (-43)
Infrastructure: Granary, Forge, Walls, Hagia Sophia, Pavilion (Theatre), Castle, Barracks
Doal = 14h (+7)
Infrastructure: none
Omni Point = 12h (+2)
Infrastructure: none
Foster = 7h (+7)
Infrastructure: Pavilion (Theatre)



mh

[sooooo]

Thanks m-h, I was waiting for this. Could The Warning have built a university (200 hammers)? I'm guessing Lakhamba and Mutal are building things with doubler modifiers? I'm going to predict University of Sangkore and Sistine Chapel.