Glory of War - correspondence & foreign affairs

[vondrack]

Alright. I believe it is safe to assume we, as a team, are ok with honouring our original deal, just slightly modified. I am going to send the following PM to Master Zen:

Greetings, people of GoW!
(all three of you )

Legoland has always wished to be on the best terms with Glory of War. In order to make this more than just hollow words and to demonstrate our good will and genuine desire for peaceful coexistence and close cooperation, we have decided to honour the trade we discussed, though never signed.

As we were, in the meantime, while our negotiations stalled a little bit, able to acquire Feudalism from another source, we would respectfully ask for two minor modifications to the previously proposed agreement as a sign of good will from your side.

Legoland-GoW Theo+Edu/Chiv trade agreement

1) Legoland agrees to provide GoW with Theology and Education. GoW agrees to not resell/trade/gift these techs to any other party for 20 turns from receiving Education. After these 20 turns, GoW agrees to not trade Theology to any other team, unless that team also agrees to not build Sistine's Chapel as part of the trade.

2) GoW agrees to provide Legoland with Chivalry and its World Map. Legoland agrees to not resell/trade/gift Chivalry to any other party for 20 turns after receiving it.

3) Legoland agrees to not attempt to build Leonardo's Workshop as long as GoW remains in the game.

4) GoW agrees to not attempt to build Sistine's Chapel and Bach's Cathedral as long as Legoland remains in the game.

5) The trade shall happen right after the last of the three techs is discovered. First, Theology shall be sent as "accepted" to GoW. On the next turn, GoW will send "accepted" Chivalry and its World Map, and Legoland will send "accepted" Education.

On behalf of Legoland: vondrack, Vice-President & Military Architect

Best regards,
vondrack

[Sharpe]

Actually if GoW would be willing to substitute Engineering for Feudalism, I would go for it , as they are more likely to get it quicker than Vox will.

I don't know if the double no-wonder clause is useful as we are very likely not to get both. I still prefer my idea of no-Sistine with a substitute of Bach if some other civ gets Sistine.

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Sharpe
Actually if GoW would be willing to substitute Engineering for Feudalism, I would go for it , as they are more likely to get it quicker than Vox will.

Nope.

GoW is getting Engineering from Voxes - that I know.

[vondrack]

We finally have our trade agreement with GoW:

[quote]Thank you Vondrack;

I'm writing on behaf of MasterZen who is currently experiencing internet problems that the agreement is accepted by the Glory of War.

Thanks

Panzer32, temporary Emperor and current Consul of Internal Affairs of the Glory of War.

a copy of our PM to Master Zen:

Greetings, people of GoW!
(both two of you )

Legoland has always wished to be on the best terms with Glory of War. In order to make this more than just hollow words and to demonstrate our good will and genuine desire for peaceful coexistence and close cooperation, we have decided to honour the trade we discussed, though never signed.

As we were, in the meantime, while our negotiations stalled a little bit, able to acquire Feudalism from another source, we would respectfully ask for two minor modifications to the previously proposed agreement as a sign of good will from your side.

Legoland-GoW Theo+Edu/Chiv trade agreement

1) Legoland agrees to provide GoW with Theology and Education. GoW agrees to not resell/trade/gift these techs to any other party for 20 turns from receiving Education. After these 20 turns, GoW agrees to not trade Theology to any other team, unless that team also agrees to not build Sistine's Chapel as part of the trade.

2) GoW agrees to provide Legoland with Chivalry and its World Map. Legoland agrees to not resell/trade/gift Chivalry to any other party for 20 turns after receiving it.

3) Legoland agrees to not attempt to build Leonardo's Workshop as long as GoW remains in the game.

4) GoW agrees to not attempt to build Sistine's Chapel and Bach's Cathedral as long as Legoland remains in the game.

5) The trade shall happen right after the last of the three techs is discovered. First, Theology shall be sent as "accepted" to GoW. On the next turn, GoW will send "accepted" Chivalry and its World Map, and Legoland will send "accepted" Education.

On behalf of Legoland: vondrack, Vice-President & Military Architect

[ZargonX]

Ok, GoW is up to something. In the chatroom with them yesterday, several of their members were having a private chat, and something was being fiercely debated. Whatever it was, they decided it would be begun in 3 turns.

So, naturally, that put me a little on edge. Usually that sort of debate surrounds a military decision. Though maybe I'm being over paranoid, maybe we might want to shuffle a few troops back north; just in case. I really, really doubt that they would be attacking us, but better to be safe than sorry, yes?

[vondrack]

Actually, even without this warning, we sort of ARE shuffling troops to counter a theoretical invasion in the North... eventually (within ~2 turns), we will have two elite mercs and a vet sword in Jackson and 2-3 reg mercs and a reg sword in Panama. Both cities are on hills, so that should be enough to give us time enough to delay anyone trying to catch us by surprise... plus, we have money enough to prmptly goldrush reinforcements in both Panama and Jackson. And Legopolis would be able to spit a merc or sword every two turns.

I do not say it would be a walk in a park, but we would fend off or hold an invasion of up to 8 knights, I believe.

Plus, if I suspected ANYONE from surprise attacking us, it would not be GoW - we have signed such a lopsided tech deal with them recently that they would have to be nuts to attack us NOW, before they get what they are supposed to according to the trade agreement.

I am quite strongly conviced this is all about an all-out attack at GS.

[Sharpe]

Kloreep and I were just chatting about this.

Kloreep wonders if GoW would be attacking ND.

I wonder whether they would be too, but doing so in an alliance in Gathering Storm?

Not saying that it is the case, but GS does have the money to hire GoW.

For us a GS-GoW alliance is particularly troublesome as we would have to seriously consider switching to that alliance....

I mean would you want to be in an alliance with RP as our major ally?

[ZargonX]

Chat with Panzer tonight, trying to get some info on things in general...

ZargonX> hey Panzer
ZargonX> may I speak with you for a bit?
Panzer_32> hey there
Panzer_32> sure
ZargonX> Well, basically, I just wanted to talk about the world situation with you, as it were
Panzer_32> ok
ZargonX> how are things going for GoW these days?
Panzer_32> fine
ZargonX>
ZargonX> how do you all feel about the developments on Estonia?
Panzer_32> I think that GS is going to control Estonia eventually
ZargonX> it does seem that way, yes
Panzer_32> basically Vox either needs somewhere to go or they will be wiped out.
ZargonX> how are your relations with GS?
ZargonX> you don't have to answer that, of course
Panzer_32> I don't mind... we're cordial with them
ZargonX> and how is the situation on Bob now?
ZargonX> stable?
Panzer_32> we're trying to work with GS and Vox to get a solution soon
ZargonX> ah, that's good
Panzer_32> yeah, Bob is stable at the moment
ZargonX> GoW as peace negotiators... how unexpected
ZargonX> well, I didn't really have a point for this chat, per se
ZargonX> but we feel it's a good time in the world to reforge diplomatic bonds
ZargonX> and we value highly our relation with your people
Panzer_32> The Bob situation may be sort of a ballence of power though
Panzer_32> no one power wants to war with another b/c the third will gang up on them
ZargonX> yes, I could see how that would be a sticky situation
Panzer_32> yes, our teams have always been good friends... opposites attract I guess
ZargonX> We think it's a mutually beneficial relationship for all involved
ZargonX> and your team has always been fair and honest with us, which is more than we can say for others...
Panzer_32> One of the possibilities for the Vox solution would be for them to settle somewhere on Legoland continent... what do you say to this?
ZargonX> no one has spoken to us directly about it yet
ZargonX> so as of yet, we really haven't had a proposal to comment on
Panzer_32> We do value both fairness and keeping contracts
Panzer_32> right, but what do you think of the basic concept of it?
ZargonX> well, it is a possibility
ZargonX> of course, it'd be something that'd have to be negotiated out
Panzer_32> I'm just wondering because there has been quite an amount of talk about it as well as other plans in our forum. I wondered how active the discussion has been in other teams forums
ZargonX> we've basically been holding off speculating about it until Vox contacted us directly
Panzer_32> ok... Vox seems reluctant to realize that they need to get off Estonia if they want to survive
ZargonX> I guess they're sort of hanging in with all they've got
ZargonX> I'm sure we'll hear something soon from them if things keep up
Panzer_32> Even with Roleplay's Iron, whatever financing youre giving them, as well as whatever support we can give them w/o compromizing our own security can't really compete with GS and their economy.
ZargonX> Has RP confirmed to you that they're giving Vox iron?
Panzer_32> not officially I believe... but its sort of taken for granted
ZargonX> in a recent talk we had with RP
ZargonX> they sort of gave us the impression that they were bowing out of the whole affair
ZargonX> we might have been misunderstanding them, though
ZargonX> but a powerful GS would be a problem for the Bob situation, you think?
ZargonX> if one team and GS allied against the others
ZargonX> sorry... got disconnected randomly...
Panzer_32> yes, it would (powerful GS). But there are some things we can't really influence too much
Panzer_32> I hadn't posted when you were disconnected
ZargonX>
ZargonX> yes, changing the GS situation would be difficult at this point
ZargonX> well, that pretty much covers it
ZargonX> like I said, just a friendly catch-up chat
Panzer_32> ok... you got disconnected; do you want a transcript at all?
ZargonX> if you don't mind, that'd be great
ZargonX> first rule of diplomacy: write it all down
Panzer_32> ok
ZargonX> oh, one other thing...
ZargonX> in regards to our tech deal...
Panzer_32> ?
ZargonX> do you have an ETA on Chiv?
ZargonX> so we can time the trade for Edu
Panzer_32> chivalry should come in about 7 turns
ZargonX> oh, great! that should time quite nicely
Panzer_32> oh?
ZargonX> I mean, with the arrival of Edu
Panzer_32> edu coming at the same time?
ZargonX> 2 turns later, I believe...
ZargonX> but I can't get into the forum to check for sure...
Panzer_32> ok, 2 turn delay isn't a big deal
Panzer_32> we probably won't be building universities any time soon
ZargonX>
ZargonX> I'll PM you with a firm figure when I get the save
Panzer_32> no, thats ok, don't bother. Just tell us when your'e getting close
ZargonX> no problem!
ZargonX> anyway, have to run for a bit!
ZargonX> been nice chatting with you
Panzer_32> ok, I'm just about to send the log to you
ZargonX> great, thanks!
ZargonX> talk to you later!
Panzer_32> bye
ZargonX> so long!

[ZargonX]

Ok, after the devlopments with the ND scout, I had a chat with MZ. I accidentally lost the log, but let me summarize:

-I asked if they were under contract with any other nations.
-MZ didn't give a yes or no, but asked if we needed their services.
-I said we may be intersted in putting them on retainer.
-MZ wanted to know against whom.
-I wouldn't answer.
-He asked if it was someone GoW had access to.
-I said don't they have access to everyone
-I asked if there was anyone that GoW would NOT fight.
-MZ said they would fight anyone, but needed more details.
-I said we had a situation that could go either way, but that we wanted to be ready just in case.
-MZ said they would probably agree to any proposal that we gave them.
-I reaffirmed that we wanted a strong relationship.
-MZ agreed, and said to send him more info when ready.
-I said we needed some team time to talk, and that I'd get back to him soon.

[vondrack]

And just to keep everybody posted:

Session Start: Thu Jun 26 20:17:13 2003
Session Ident: Panzer32
vondrack: hello, Panzer!
vondrack: u here?
Panzer32: yeah
vondrack: just briefly checking - any ETA on Chivalry?
Panzer32: 190bc
vondrack: 2 turns to go then, right?
Panzer32: yes
vondrack: we should be done with Edu in 150BC
vondrack: 5 turns from now
Panzer32: ok, great!
vondrack: yeah, that will work nicely...
vondrack:
vondrack: ok, that's all - won't keep you any longer
Panzer32: ok, see you later
Session Close: Thu Jun 26 20:21:46 2003

I seem to keep "misremembering" the correct date of the discovery of Education...

[ZargonX]

As I said, I started to ball rolling on the next round of tech trades with GoW. Nothing complex so far, just a confirmation of Astronomy for Invention, most likely.

ZargonX> Hey MZ!
MasterZen> hey
ZargonX> Just wanted to let you know, we have sent Theo on to you this turn as part of the Lego-GoW tech agreement
ZargonX> Edu will be forthcoming after that
MasterZen> ah ok!
MasterZen> good, you shall get the merchandise in return
ZargonX> Excellent
ZargonX> We would also be interested in discussing another round of trades, if you are all willing
MasterZen> sure, what are you guys going for?
ZargonX> Well, we are assuming you are going down the Invention route...
ZargonX> and we will be going for Astronomy
ZargonX> If you are indeed going for Inv, we would like to possibly work out something for those
MasterZen> yes that sounds ideal
ZargonX> Excellent!
MasterZen> Astronomy for Invention...
ZargonX> Yes, we feel that would be beneficial to all
MasterZen> hey, as long as no two teams research the same tech, it is
ZargonX> heh, very true
ZargonX> I will write up a draft proposal, and PM it to you shortly
MasterZen> great
ZargonX> Sounds good!
MasterZen> we'll most likely agree to it
ZargonX> Wonderful! As always, a pleasure working with you!

[Tiberius]

Ah, I should have read the previous chat and I'd have known then that GoW has finished Chiv for some turns now

[Tiberius]

Shouldn't we ask for a small amount of money to balance the difference between Astronomy and Invention? I know that we want to keep GoW happy with the trades they make with us, especially now that they have Chivalry, but 300 beakers are 300 beakers. We should ask for something in exchange; let's see: 50-80 gold shouldn't sound outrageous. Or maybe it would be the time to sign a long NAP with them? (since we can't land on Bob anyway)

So IMHO, we could propose a NAP+Astronomy for NAP+Invention + (50 : 80) gold and settle on a deal without the gold, since the NAP is more important. The gold part is important to let them think that they've done a good deal.

[vondrack]

Agreed with Tibi - no need to exaggerate our generosity...

[Kloreep]

to getting an NAP. (How long since the ND treaty was signed? And do we want to time our NAP to the one with ND, or extend it beyond it?) to trying to get some gold on the side. Even 100 wouldn't be an outrageous amount to ask for, though it could certainly drop.