Glory of War - correspondence & foreign affairs

[lmtoops]

I was away all weekend.

I support the agreement. It is a very good deal.

[Kloreep]

Originally posted by vondrack
Those that didn't get a chance to have a say, accept my apologies... but this treaty is far too important to Lego to jeopardize it by unnecessary delays. As I can see only approvals here so far, I assume it is not that daring to expect even the others be happy with it.

And I approve of it.

[rendelnep]

To the good relations between GOW and legoland

Gee that is a pretty genorous treaty.Looks like we are on the road to making an ally.

[Tiberius]

Some interesting info (after studying the advisors), I wasn't sure where to put it:

1. The GoW has built some sort of cultural improvement. Their culture is stronger than hours and it is inceasing faster than hours
2. In the latest turns, they have gained in score and power against us, but this is no surprise, as we were building our wonder, granary and barracks instead of settlers
2. The military advisor is telling us that we have a strong military compared to the GoW !!! Now this is a surprise, IMHO. Furthermore, DeepO from the GS said in his last message that all 3 civs from BOB have stronger military than the GS, which means we are much stronger than the GS!!! Now either the mil. advidor is completely drunk or misinformed or both J/K, this is great

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Tiberius
1. The GoW has built some sort of cultural improvement. Their culture is stronger than hours and it is inceasing faster than ours

Agreed, must be a temple in their capital, as it remains the #1 city in Top 5 even with pop 2 only (temple, because the improvement was built so long ago that it could not have been a library).

Originally posted by Tiberius
2. The military advisor is telling us that we have a strong military compared to the GoW !!! Now this is a surprise, IMHO. Furthermore, DeepO from the GS said in his last message that all 3 civs from BOB have stronger military than the GS, which means we are much stronger than the GS!!! Now either the mil. advidor is completely drunk or misinformed or both J/K, this is great

Yes, I agree, this is absolutely awesome. It should help lessen the threat of an invasion, hopefully, as our words shall not be taken lightly. Should also help misleading others regarding our situation and the size of our landmass - so many units suggest that we do not really have that much room to expand...

[ZargonX]

Hmm... I was thinking about nominating us in the public forum (under the post-game ceremony thread) for "First to Sail Across the Seas" award. This would serve the dual purposes of letting all the teams know we've gone naval, as well as just giving us something cool to lay claim to Anyway, what does everyone think?

[Tiberius]

Sounds good. How about a Daily Blueprint editorial about the issue?

[ZargonX]

That's next. It's just my hands are killing me from typing at work, so I've had a hard time motivating myself to do it at home

[vondrack]

OK, another chatlog... I tried to settle the problem with GoW, GS, & CoL... dunno if it is going to work, but at least I tried. Read it anyway, some garbage there, but some interesting info, too (worker/slave exchange, GoW intentions regarding settlements on Mystery Island and our landmass, their production base...).

vondrack: btw... since you are from GoW (right?) and we are here alone...
Donegeal: yes???
vondrack: seems we have run into a problem with GS
Donegeal: go figure...
vondrack: we talked to them about a possible future cooperation on the Republic research
Donegeal: before you start anything... I am acting in no official position...
vondrack: of course
Donegeal: ok... go on...
vondrack: I am just trying to find out what's going on
vondrack: and they seemed to be quite upset about the fact that we are supposed to get CoL as part of our "first contact" deal
vondrack: was there any "no whoring" clause in effect?
Donegeal: hmmm... GS is mostly quiet... we don't here alot from them..
Donegeal: hmmm... I don't remember... let me go look...
vondrack: it seemed to me as if they suggested we were not supposed to get CoL from you due to a "no whoring clause" (had I known there could be a problem, we would not approach them... but GF indicated nothing like that, so I had no idea things could get messy by talking to GS)
Donegeal: oh ****... did we give you CoL already?
vondrack: keep this to yourself or within your team, please - I may be mistaken and they might have been upset about something completely or slightly else... but my impression was like that
vondrack: well, it was part of the deal
vondrack: and if you played your turn and stood in your word
vondrack: you should have given us CoL, yes
Donegeal: yep... we keep our word. That is the entire basis for playing merc...
Donegeal: crap....
Donegeal: crap, crap, crap...
vondrack: so, I gather - oversight on your side, right?
Donegeal: not me personally... but yes.
vondrack: ok, here is a suggestion:
vondrack: go talk to GS
Donegeal: I think I have some work to do.
vondrack: tell them you made a mistake unintentionally
vondrack: and try working out some fair solution
vondrack: I am quite sure that will help
Donegeal: It is even post right next to each other (our deal with GS and the deal with you)
vondrack: things happen...
vondrack: but I really suggest you do not wait for them start jumping on you and go ahead, apologizing
Donegeal: It says right there, no-trade clause... This is completly unintetional... I ask you, if you have not played your turn, and we did send you CoL to not accept it. Please.
vondrack: well, that would be a problem
vondrack: first
vondrack: it is your turn now
vondrack: you offered CoL, Math & HBR
vondrack: and sent
vondrack: we countered with Philosophy
vondrack: accepted
vondrack: and sent back
Donegeal: I'll go see if I can stop it...****...
Donegeal: so you have CoL already?
vondrack: now you are supposed to accept
Donegeal: ****! **** **** ****!
vondrack: quite frankly, if this deal gets cancelled, WE would be quite upset
Donegeal: I know... but we might not have a choice...
vondrack: that's what I am trying to suggest
vondrack: talk to GS
Donegeal: ****!!!!
vondrack: and try working out a deal
Donegeal: I gotta go and start posting...
vondrack: they may be happy getting our contact
vondrack: they may be happy getting some money
vondrack: dunno
Donegeal: later...
vondrack: we DID tell them we would prefer them letting it be
Donegeal: (I will still be here, But I won't come back here for awhile)
vondrack: k
vondrack: not sure now if I put it all right...
vondrack: so I will briefly sum it up one more time:
vondrack: 1) if you break your treaty with GS, they will get pissed off
vondrack: 2) if you break the deal with us, tbh, we will get pissed off
vondrack: 3) the two deals are incompatible
vondrack: so, the best solution would probably be
vondrack: to accomodate GS for the breach
vondrack: giving them our contact for free or giving them some money or something
vondrack: that would hopefully make everybody happy
vondrack: I understand that it would cost you something
vondrack: but then...
vondrack: mistakes are not free of charge
vondrack:
Donegeal: back... I have sent PMs to all active team members and made a couple of posts in the forum.
vondrack: k
vondrack: what do think the solution is going to be?
Donegeal: I, unfortunatly have no authority reguarding GS.
Donegeal: ... and no team members are on line...
vondrack: k... tell GF to PM me or catch me on IRC when he has a minute, please
Donegeal: ok... I will
vondrack: quite frankly, we would not be very happy if our deal went through the window
Donegeal: please... remember, this was unintentional. A complete mistake.
Donegeal: ... and I know how it happened.
vondrack: I understand... but still, we acted assuming the deal was signed
vondrack: and if it is recalled now...
Donegeal: when we signed the deal with GS, we all said to ourselves "A no-trade clause involving CoL is unimportant as the tech is only needed for Rep and getting out of the Age. No big deal" and we never thought about it a second time.
vondrack: yeah... I thought something like that
Donegeal: ****!!!
Donegeal: this sucks...
Donegeal: oh, BTW, I have been appointed as the Ambassador to Lego...
vondrack:
vondrack: nice to meet you
Donegeal: hehe.... you too
vondrack: anything to talk about?
Donegeal: What a way to start a job, huh?
vondrack: LoL
Donegeal: actually... there is lots to talk about.
vondrack: ok, if it is just talking... go ahead
Donegeal: no... I am going to start planting some seeds here...
Donegeal: what function do you have with Lego?
vondrack: seeds? random seeds?
vondrack: nothing really important
vondrack: the President
vondrack:
Donegeal: ok... I guess I can lower myself to that level...
vondrack: LoL
vondrack: appreciate that
Donegeal: I had a brain storm the other day that my teammates liked...
vondrack: let's see if I like it, too...
Donegeal: I'll tell you some free info here...
vondrack: k
Donegeal: GoW has only 3, maybe 4 workers (one is a Luxian slave named "Trip" )
Donegeal: so we have 3/4 workers... about how many does Lego have?
Donegeal: just estimate... I don't need excate
vondrack: 5, if I am not mistaken
vondrack: maybe 6, not sure now
vondrack: Jason, Leopold, Jimbo, Charlie, Rover
Donegeal: ok, great... when you get to Rep, how much is that going to cost you?
vondrack: 5 money
Donegeal: yep... same here...
vondrack: not a big deal
Donegeal: What I proposed, is why pay that at all?
vondrack: I can see where you aim...
Donegeal: What about swapping workers...
vondrack: but that slows them suckers down by 50%
Donegeal: ... and...
Donegeal: both of us build a "Worker pump" next to our capitols that do nothing but push out workers trading them to each other the same turn the worker is complete.
Donegeal: A good pump can push our a worker every other turn.
vondrack: well, it is certainly an interesting idea, but the worker slowdown is dramatic
vondrack: ind workers are great for their speed
vondrack: 1 gpt upkeep is not that much of a problem
Donegeal: but there is no top limit for the amount of workers
vondrack: that's correct
Donegeal: unlimited workers
vondrack: this might work later on
vondrack: when workers are plentiful
Donegeal: you want to keep people off you continent?
Donegeal: set up a worker wall
Donegeal: it cost you nothing
Donegeal: say we don't do this
Donegeal: you have upwards of 15-20 workers fixing your land and costing you 15-20 GPT.
Donegeal: Now, imaging that this deal goes through...
Donegeal: you have 50-60 workers fixing up your land...even at half speed, you get more done
Donegeal: + we are industrious as well...
Donegeal: ... and it free.
vondrack: well, it is not a complete nonsense, I admit... even if it may not be feasible in the nearest future, it is a smart idea
vondrack: will tell my teammates
Donegeal: yep... that is what my teammates said as well
Donegeal: not right now, but maybe in the short tearm future..
vondrack: don't you need to have a city on the same continent as the civ you are trading your workers with?
Donegeal: nope... they go directly between the caps
vondrack: I vaguely remember something like that being mentioned on the boards
vondrack: ah, ok
Donegeal: there is another thing that this will do...
Donegeal: Imagine the relationship between GoW and Lego after doing this for 1000+ years.
vondrack: yeah, we would probably be VERY good friends... )
Donegeal: on a personal note... what do you know of me? What is your impression of me (if you don't mind me asking)?
Donegeal: do you think of me as a Warmonger?
vondrack: I remember
vondrack: reading a notice somewhere
vondrack: that you started GoW
vondrack: as the exact opposite
vondrack: of what you usually play
Donegeal: ok.... just checking...
vondrack: was it not in the Introductions thread?
Donegeal: I am a builder and I hoped that .... I don't remember if I put it there. I might have.
vondrack: I distinctly remember reading this info somewhere
vondrack: does not matter where it was
vondrack: the personal impression is just fine
vondrack: I have found out there are straight, open people in this game
vondrack: and there are others...
Donegeal: I just don't want you to think that I am a bloodthirsty person who thinks that war is the only way to win.
vondrack: tbh, I do not care about who calls himself a builder and who calls himself a warmonger
vondrack: I consider myself as a builder
Donegeal: Hell... my favorite unit is the Knight because I love the ideas of Chivalry.
vondrack: but I have absolutely no problem to declare war at any time, should I see it the right thing to do
Donegeal: hmmm... like when a city gets plopped down on Un-Bob?
Donegeal: hehehehe....
vondrack: well, yes, that would be the case )
vondrack: we call our land Legos
vondrack: and the island mid-way Mystery Island
Donegeal: don't worry about us... I could only see us putting a city there.... whoa there...
Donegeal: Mid way would be a different matter...
vondrack: the part of Legos we started on is called Legos Major, while a peninsula in the West Legos Minor
Donegeal: sorry... I have not seen a map of you continent yet...
vondrack: well, the Mystery Island is perhaps the only thing we would not consider "our sphere of influence" (this is just my personal opinion, not that of the whole team)
vondrack: yeah... we do not wish to trade our map around
Donegeal: Mid-way is closer to us than to you.
vondrack: yes
vondrack: by one tile, I think
Donegeal: how is that "you sphere of influence"?
Donegeal: er.. your...
vondrack: it is the land we are not going to let anyone else settle on
Donegeal: ummm... I think you will have a difficult time "Claiming" Midway.
Donegeal: two reasons:
vondrack: as I said, we would probably not oppose your settlement there
vondrack: it is not important to us, I think
Donegeal: 1) it is closer to us
Donegeal: 2) you already have an entire continent to yourself. Don't be greedy.
vondrack: we are not
Donegeal: oh... ok...
vondrack: I said we would probably not oppose
Donegeal: good... see? Good relations already...
vondrack:
Donegeal: but that damn mess up with GS......
Donegeal: Vondrack, I swear to you upon my dedication to the Apolyton ISDG that it was a mistake.
vondrack: just keep in mind that any settlement West of that island would trigger a war... not threatening, just trying to arrange for good relations
vondrack: I have no reason to doubt what you say
vondrack: mistakes happen
vondrack: but now there is this situation
Donegeal: yep... we have no intention of even going to your continent.
vondrack: and we need some sort of a solution
Donegeal: Panzer is our head of Forgien affairs.
vondrack: btw, what was that note by Darekill about them and RPers allying against you? just j/k?
Donegeal: GF went beyond his authority...
Donegeal: I don't know about a note yet... where was it posted? I think ND was ticked at us for trying to steal some of their Lux Booty.
vondrack: it was somewhere in the public PtWDG forum
vondrack: I think that Trip-Historian thread
vondrack: not sure
Donegeal: I would not be suprized...
vondrack: I would
vondrack: RPers would have to lose their mind
Donegeal: why?
vondrack: they'd have nothing to gain
vondrack: just a more powerful rival
Donegeal: RPers are the most devious team
vondrack: if ND conquers yourself
vondrack: they would be the next on the menu
vondrack: ah, devious... not sure...
Donegeal: ND would struggle mightily against us....
vondrack: I would use a different word, but I will better not to...
Donegeal: Actually, I don't think a RP/ND alliance against us would win...
Donegeal: we have set up to well.
vondrack: yeah, GF told me it would probably ended up in a stalemate
Donegeal: we have choosen our land carefully....
vondrack: ummm... then how come than our military is "strong" compared to yours?
vondrack: that our...
Donegeal: duh... Numidean Mercs...
vondrack: ah, that might be it, correct
Donegeal: plus you have more workers than us...
vondrack: I forgot the strengths depend on ADM ratings
vondrack: workers are not counted
vondrack: non-combat units
Donegeal: really? I thought they were.... is that a change in a patch?
vondrack: I believe so
Donegeal: hmm... I must've missed that.
vondrack: A/D=0/0 -:[/b] excluded from military strengths
vondrack: or, more precisely, even if included, having no effect because of zero A/D values
Donegeal: no... the reason why it would end in a stalemate is our production base is enormous...we can double our military in one turn if we need to.
vondrack: I see
Donegeal: anyway... I need to get going (and maybe try to fix the GS mess)
vondrack: ok, take care
vondrack: ttyl
Donegeal: please feel free to share this info with your team.
vondrack: ok, I will
vondrack: same applies to you
Donegeal: Do not share any info gained here to other teams.
Donegeal: ... and I will do the same.
vondrack: of course
Donegeal: I consider this private matters not to be shared.
vondrack: ok
Donegeal: no offense... I just want to be sure that it is well read...
Donegeal: Later Mr. President!
vondrack: cya
vondrack:

[redstar1]

Excellent! Perhaps we should suggest a small city on Mystery island that we may use as a naval base?

[vondrack]

First, here is my today's correspondence with GhengisFarb:

Oh well, you interested in making an offer for Polytheism? We just found it lying around in the bushes.

Congratulations! We have been researching this way for quite some time...

Can you give me an idea, what would you ask for? Speaking to other teams about future deals, we are more and more realizing we have very vague idea about what the tech prices in this world are... I would not like to make an offer you would find outrageous... try coming up with a number (money is currently the only thing we can offer) - I will post it in our forum and see what we can do from there on... we know (at least I believe we do) RPers are few turns from discovering it, so we will probably buy it from whoever offers the better price (the only importance of Polytheism for us being the fact it's needed to get out of the ancient times). Both RPers and GoW currently are or are likely to be good trading partners, so we do not mind trading for it with either team.

Also, I have asked donegeal about whether you'd be insterested in getting Currency, which we've just started to research... I do not really have a good idea about how much "prearranged/guaranteed deals" are used, so if you tell me "it's too early", it will be ok, too.

Don't tell any of the other teams we got Polytheism, I am going to smooth things over with GS before we let them know.

Seriously, you should continue to research Republic, ND has already committed 8 to 10 turns of research to Currency so they would probably finish before you. I am going to talk to Togas about Polytheism and try to come up with a fair price to ask everyone for it and give it to Roleplay at a discount since they were already researching it. Feel free to offer price suggestions. Techs have been selling for anything from 10 to 100 gold depending on how greedy the team was that was selling it.

Well, what about 60 gold then? I will have to consult with my team, so take this with a grain of salt, please, but this would sound like a fair price to me... you got it from a hut, but the beaker cost would be 12*24=288... suppose you give it to RPers almost for free - that gives four teams to sell it to for the full price... 244/4=72. Say, a small discount for a tech "Made in Hut" (plus you will get something from RPers, too)... would that be acceptable?

That sounds, good. Togas agree that it sounded like a fair price.

So I will offer it this turn (you'll offer 60 gold for it and accept). I would also like to add the stipulation that Lego not offer or mention the fact that anyone has Polytheism or trade it to either Vox or GS. This will give our teams a chance to get a headstart on the techs we are researching and help insure that no one beats to their discovery.

Now, I really believe we should take the deal. 60 gold is less than 2 turns of our research... and our problem now is that everybody else has got a head start on us and we cannot beat them to the techs they are researching, even if we go at full speed. Thus, anything that is available for money is a fine deal. So, the deal is:

Buy Polytheism from GoW for 60 gold. No reselling possible (at least that is what I understand).

Comment on the proposal ASAP, please, we are likely to get the save soon and I need to know if it is okay to accept.

[Nimitz]

Looks ok to me.

[ZargonX]

sounds good to me. Can't beat a good bargain!

[lmtoops]

Fine with me

[Tiberius]

Looking good.