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**vondrack** · March 9, 2003, 10:13

Glory of Lego Treaty of 1300 BC

And this just came from GhengisFarb - the official proposal:

Glory of Lego Treaty of 1300 BC

Treaty and Trades:

GoW agrees to give Lego:
Horseback Riding, Code of Laws, and Mathematics in return for Philosophy this turn.

(GoW will offer its techs, on Lego's turn it will offer Philosophy and click 'accept" then send)

Next turn Gow will gift Lego Literature and click "accept".

GoW will aquire contact with all other existing civs for Lego during the next turn in return for which Lego grants GoW exclusive rights to trade Philosophy to the other civs.

GoW understands that Lego does not wish to trade its world map for fear of others claiming land on Legos but Lego agrees that on the turn it first trades/shares its world map with another civ that GoW will be allowed to trade world maps with Lego also.

Comment ASAP, the sooner we can get this done, the better.

**vondrack** · March 9, 2003, 10:44

And now my comments.

I guess nobody will be surprised to see me support the current treaty draft, as I have been the one negotiating. But let me add a couple of points, why I believe we should take the deal:

1. No need to explore further
Getting all contacts, G.G. can turn immediately back, taking care of transporting Angus from Legos Minor to the Mystery Island. We would not need to build another galley in Panama - we could instead build barracks there, spitting out a couple of veteran horsemen and upgrading our warriors to swordsmen. That would ensure we would be able to swiftly wipe out anyone landing on Legos Major.

2. Ability to research Republic very soon
If what GF says is true (and it sounds reasonable), nobody is researching The Republic right now. That means that if we start immediately (or the turn after), we will get it before anyone else does, trading it around for the rest of missing ancient techs. That would complete our tech race catch-up.

3. Spending no money on contacts/techs
For just the cost of Philosophy (6*24=144 beakers) which we got from a hut, we would get techs worth (10+5+8)*24=552 beakers + 5 turns of Literature research worth of 133 more beakers - that is a total of 685 beakers for 144 beakers. Dunno how about you, but it strikes me as an awesome deal... not mentioning the fact that we would get contacts to all other teams within two turns, which effectively puts us "into the loop", allowing us to fully use our great research potential.

4. Starting a good relationship with GoW
This is perhaps more of my hope than a fact, but I believe that if we act like a good, easy to deal with trading partner, GoW will double-think before going hostile towards us. They are apparently completely happy about this deal. They now know we will not tolerate any landings on our landmass and they now know we have iron we can trade to them. If I were them, I would rather focus on improving the cooperation rather than on pissing us off with a futile attempt to plop a city of theirs on Legos (they may even think we already have swords...

). From our point of view, the deal is just great, so why push it and try making few more gold? Let's be easy and nice.

5. Ability to pop our remaining huts immediately
Catching up tech-wise within two turns would allow us to pop the huts without delays, hopefully getting one more tech others do not have yet.

6. Not pissing anyone else off
The deal is so apparently fine that I seriously doubt anyone could feel pissed off by the fact that we signed it. Making one friend and no enemies is something to be considered, too.

And last, but not least - I do realize that we might squeeze a bit more of GoW... however, at the risk that Philosophy would cease to be our exclusive (GS or Voxes seem to be researching it currently... and as it is a cheap tech, they will likely get it soon) and at the risk that GoW will grow tired of prolonged negotiations and develop a negative attitude towards us. As they are currently the only other civ in position (and with a good reason) to make troubles to us, I would prefer being nice to them... at least until we get a firm hold on all of our landmass.

PLEASE, speak your mind ASAP - the sooner we are able to give any answer to GoW, the better.

**Sharpe** · March 9, 2003, 10:59

Sounds great to me!

You might want to set up a poll for confirmation but I would be surprised if anyone opposed.

Just curious as I have never traded for a tech that I was currently researching - what happens to our accumulated beakers for Literature if we trade for it? Do they disappear or can be used for another tech?

If we get those civs , we can head straight for Republic - at our current rate of beakers we should be able to get it in around 20 or so turns. Despite the beaker difference I wouldn't mind then trading Republic for Currency (Commerce) as GoW is certainly giving us a lot of tech for not much on our part this time.

I would suggest that this tech trade may eliminate the need for the Gr Lib especially if GS and GoW are willing to continue trading tech with us in the future. If so, we should abandon building a wonder at Panama for now and perhaps get a galley, barracks and settler at least. That should take 76 shields (about 11-13 turns when we get that iron working). Then we can decide whether to go for a medieval wonder such as Sistine or a library next.

**redstar1** · March 9, 2003, 11:33

I agree, go for it.

**ZargonX** · March 9, 2003, 12:24

I also give it a stamp of approval! Will you contact them Vondrack, or do you want me to do it?

**vondrack** · March 9, 2003, 12:34

Originally posted by ZargonX
I also give it a stamp of approval! Will you contact them Vondrack, or do you want me to do it?

I believe once Nimitz, Kloreep, Tiberius, and lmtoops have their say, too (have I missed anyone fairly active? if so, accept my apologies), you can officially accept the treaty on our behalf (sending a PM to GhengisFarb). However, wait until midnight GMT, please. I know it's probably not necessary, as the deal is really good, but I would prefer our active members to be okay with it prior to signing. And I also don't want to look too eager to take the deal...

**ZargonX** · March 9, 2003, 12:53

Check. If you'd like, I can message GF and ask if he doesn't mind holding the turn until we can reach a decision, up or down. I can tell him we'll have an answer by 12:00 GMT.

**vondrack** · March 9, 2003, 13:20

Originally posted by ZargonX
Check. If you'd like, I can message GF and ask if he doesn't mind holding the turn until we can reach a decision, up or down. I can tell him we'll have an answer by 12:00 GMT.

I do not think it is necessary. I told GF we would need time until midnight to accept the deal. And they need time to arrange for our contact to be distributed among other teams anyway... just wait until midnight and then send the officially signed treaty.

**ZargonX** · March 9, 2003, 13:24

Got it. It's my mom's birthday today, so I may out to dinner with my family at 12:00 GMT. If I haven't posted a message here saying I've sent it by 12:15 GMT, could someone please go ahead and do it? I don't want to hold up things any longer than necessary!

**vondrack** · March 9, 2003, 13:27

Originally posted by ZargonX
Got it. It's my mom's birthday today, so I may out to dinner with my family at 12:00 GMT. If I haven't posted a message here saying I've sent it by 12:15 GMT, could someone please go ahead and do it? I don't want to hold up things any longer than necessary!

OK, I will take care of that, no worries.

**Tiberius** · March 9, 2003, 14:01

Very good treaty! Honestly I wouldn't have hoped for such good terms! In an eyeblick we are back techwise and our isolation is over.

So other than agreeing with the treaty, some observations:

1. We must build the Pyramids in Jackson to accelerate our REXing

2. We should build baracks in Panama and lots of units after that; mercenaries, swords and maybe horses; we are probably among the weakest teams (if not the weakest) militarily speaking and once we will have contact they will know that.

3. We should stop our research and put the science slider on 0 for the next 2 turns; already researched beakers are lost anyway, so at least we should make some money for future upgrades

4. Next turn we get those techs, we reseach Republic full speed ahead; this was our goal anyway; once the wonder is ready, we change government

Interesting to note that GoW finds the RP to be bigger threat than ND, eh? We might see some interesting developements on their continent soon.

My biggest concern is that someone (or more than one team) will try to land on Lego, despite our warnings. Although this won't happen soon, we need now to concentrate on building cities and troops.

**Tiberius** · March 9, 2003, 14:14

Attention! Don't email GhengisFarb, rather PM him or whatever other method. See his warning from the main PtW demo forum (his yahoo account was hacked).

**vondrack** · March 9, 2003, 17:39

OK, I feel really tired today and would like to go to bed early (plus, I have to wake up early in the morning). As I am not sure Zargon would be here to send the "signed" treaty, I will PM it to GhengisFarb myself within 20 minutes.

Those that didn't get a chance to have a say, accept my apologies... but this treaty is far too important to Lego to jeopardize it by unnecessary delays. As I can see only approvals here so far, I assume it is not that daring to expect even the others be happy with it.

**Nimitz** · March 9, 2003, 22:07

I'm happy with it it looks much in our favor.

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