Roleplayers - correspondence & foreign affairs

[Kloreep]

240g + 20t sounds good, though maybe we should lower the initial offer to 225g (+20t). Most favored nation and all that.

[Kloreep]

BTW, ND does have a surplus iron, so if ND and GoW really are allied against RP, GoW may be getting Riders soon...

On the other hand, they have 2 surplus spices, so it could just be a lux trade.

[vondrack]

Just a note: I care about the "most favoured nation" stuff only as far as there is a price we have to "meet" (like this time with Edu/GS). As soon as we are 1 gold under a price we sold something to someone else, it is - for me - the most favoured nation price. Togas loves nitpicking on the wording (as opposed to the spirit) of treaties, so I have absolutely no problem with that.

Otherwise, the RPers have been the most difficult team to deal with, they have always been extremely greedy in their "offers" and demands (remember what they asked for the no-Sistine clause! or for "helping" Voxes...), have been less helpful than any other team and never treated us as a true partner or ally. So aside from offering them a "better" price whenever there is a price to match, I have absolutely no desire to keep them happy.

They are fortunately so untrustworthy, that I cannot imagine any other Bobian or GS would join them in an attack at us any time soon, so if they dislike or hate us, so be it.

I would still start with sending them a trade agreement with no sum filled in. Let's see how much they value Edu... let's see if they ever learn... and finally go for a really fair deal.

[Nimitz]

Ok do not be upset with the messanger but RP is back on the alliance thing I'll post the parts of the log you need.

[16:51] Aidun> I wanted to know if Legoland would like to restart negotiations on the alliance now that the smell of sweating solders training in Chinese barracks can be smelled
[16:52] Nimitz> well I will have to speak to my bosses
[16:52] Nimitz> I only an ambassador
[16:53] Aidun> I know, nor have I the authority to place the royal stamp on documents, nothing has changed in centuries
[16:53] Nimitz> well for me some thing has
[16:54] Nimitz> I'm on administrative leave
[17:00] Aidun> Oh, you were always a good friendly contact with Legoland
[17:01] Nimitz> thanx
[17:03] Aidun> That is why we'd like to restart the negotiations with Legoland. Togas evesn said to me that he would drop the demant that we get your worldmap
[17:04] Nimitz> ok I'll relay it to my suppiors
[17:04] Aidun> please inform them ASAP.
[17:05] Nimitz> will do
[17:05] Aidun> They can PM me whenever they want but it is good if they sent a copy to BigFree and/or Togas too
[17:05] Nimitz> ok I'll put it in the thread
[17:06] Nimitz> they'll see it

[vondrack]

Nimitz, thanks a lot for posting the treaty!

After reading it, I would like to point out one important detail. RPers aren't honouring the wording nor the spirit of the treaty, AS THEY DO NOT RESEARCH ANYTHING AT ALL. So all that stuff about the research cooperation is simply crap, as we are the only party doing research.

And, the "most favoured nation" status is clearly defined as "selling for lower prices". Which means asking even just 1 gold less is fine.

[Nimitz]

oh and on the alliance they are kind of groveling so they must be worried.

[vondrack]

Uh, this is just amusing... RPers would even drop the demand for our world map! ROFLMAO... This only illustrates that they no longer believe it would be them helping to defend us, but us helping to defend them.

I suggest we do EDIT: NOT rush with our response and eventually politely tell them we do not see a need, neither a way to create an alliance with them at this moment. 'cause that is how things are - our NAP with ND prevents us from entering an alliance with RPers (like the one we were discussing). First come, first served. RPers were stubborn and unreasonable about the alliance (not that we would have ever intended to sign it anyway) - and here they have it. We made a deal with ND. Simple as that.

[Kloreep]

Agreed, such an alliance wouldn't be a good idea, nor would we be able to honor it due to ND's no-landing clause.

[ZargonX]

Ok, here's the draft I sent Togas...

People of Espana,

In the spirit of friendship, the citizens of Legoland wish to propose the following to you:

We, Legoland, shall give the knowledge of Education.

In exchange, the people of Espana will provide 230 gold, as well as agree to a 20-turn Non-disclosure, no-resale agreement.

We hope that these terms are agreeable to you, and we look forward to continued dealings.

ZargonX,
President of Legoland

I settled on the 230 figure as a compromise.

[ZargonX]

So, after sending the proposal to RP, BigFree contacted me and said that RP couldn't afford to spend any gold right now, as they are prepping for war. So that deal is on hold indefinately.

Next, Aidun contacted me about alliance possibilities...

Aidun> Hi
ZargonX> Hello, Aidun!
ZargonX> Be with you in one second...
Aidun> ready?
ZargonX> yes, I'm here
ZargonX> sorry, had a phone call
ZargonX> anyway, let us discuss the issues at hand
ZargonX> So, first off, could you tell me how the situation is looking from your end?
Aidun> Well, let me first state that the situation is strange
ZargonX> in what manner?
Aidun> GoW is acting very strange again. Master Zen first refused to sell chivalry to us, but then agreed for the price of 500 gold. this is ridiculous
Aidun> We have not agreed of course
ZargonX> that is rather pricy...
Aidun> The second thging is that GoW is saying that all is fine, while things aren't fine at all
Aidun> yes
ZargonX> hmmm... do you fear a GoW attack only, or an ND-GoW attack?
Aidun> This price was, as you maybe know, a lot lower for other civs
Aidun> Soldiers are trained like mad
Aidun> here
Aidun> We do not expect ND to attack us, but GoW seems to be on warpath again
ZargonX> do you think the attack will come sooner rather than later?
Aidun> We think but that GoW is using this strategy:
Aidun> They bribe ND to attack us and then all Ansars are on ND's southern border, GoW attacks ND in the north. Then GoW can easily conquer the ND production centers and it is good bye ND. After that It is Good bye Spain.
ZargonX> hmm... that would be a plausable scenario
Aidun> After that it is either Goodbye Lego or Goodbye GS
Aidun> only a matter of time
ZargonX> have you spoken to ND at all about this concerns?
Aidun> when GoW has entire Bob, they will outnumber you in forces and power in anay way
ZargonX> yes, someone controlling all of Bob would be very formidable, indeed
ZargonX> I do not think any civs in the world would be interested in seeing a one-civ Bob, by any means
Aidun> Yes, we don't have a NAP with ND, but negotiations are going on.
ZargonX> that's good to hear
Aidun> We have explained this to ND and made an agreement, but it still needs to be discussed by parliaments etc.
ZargonX> of course; team concensus is always important
Aidun> It is just now that we see a benefit for both of us joining in an alliance. For us the benefit is on the short term, for you on the long term: no Bobian superpower
ZargonX> Do you have a specific set of proposals for us?
Aidun> We would like to blow the dust of our proto-alliance-agreement but then without the demand of the map of Lego
Aidun> As we know that it is difficult for you to give it
ZargonX> yes, that is always a sticking point for us
ZargonX> so, you would want to build off the original proto-alliance, with new clauses?
Aidun> Perhaps we could agree that a ship of us may scout your coastline, but that can also be decided apart form this agreement
ZargonX> Well, as always, I will have to confer with the rest of the Lego Senate
ZargonX> but if you PM with a draft, we can look it over in short order
ZargonX> and then we can work from there
Aidun> of course, that is why it can better be left out of the allaince
ZargonX> yes, better to deal with more important issues in the main body of the agreement
ZargonX> when could you have a draft?
Aidun> All we want is a defensive alliance with you, we will come to your aid and you will come to ours. I know that war is not what you are waiting for, but I see a moment coming near that even Legoland will, like the US had to do too in WW2 although they prefered to stay out of it, take the arms and go for war. You can't escape form war, sooner or later you will have to face it. Better sooner than later
ZargonX> Yes, war seems to be a sad inevitability in this game, of that we are fully aware
ZargonX> and no one wants to see a superpower in the world
Aidun> Then we can better have peace and be close allies than opposing and fighting each other. tell that to your teammates.
Aidun> Agree
ZargonX> I will, of course, pass along the message of peace
ZargonX> Do you fear the war will be coming shortly?
Aidun> We don't want to see it either. We have stayed out of any conflict until now, even in the Voxian war, we have told ND that we want to stay at peace with them and that we trust them
Aidun> BTW, ND told us the same
Aidun> so that is positive
ZargonX> yes, that is a good sign
ZargonX> ND seems a trustworthy team, in general
Aidun> I agree with that. In the past we doubted a bit when they got quite poaweful. That was in and after the Luxian time, but time has changed, and they ahev remained trustworthy, far more trustworthyb than GoW
ZargonX> ah, the Lux days... time long gone by....
Aidun> We don't exactly know when the war will start. I have tried to predict it, but that is based on just one strategy while there are many.
ZargonX> yes, it is always hard to predict these things
ZargonX> though, I would imagine those civs with UUs would want to take advantage of them while they are still useful
Aidun> yes, but the age of the riders and ansars will not soon pass by. the medieval days seem to take as long as in RL
ZargonX>
Aidun>
ZargonX> Ok, I guess the best way to proceed forward is for RP to create a new draft agreement, and pass it along to us in short order
ZargonX> we can review it, and then more on from there
Aidun> it is important that we get it passed soon. I will look it up as soon as I can, or someone
else of our team will do
ZargonX> excellent
ZargonX> I will present it to the team as soon as I receive it
Aidun> I want to inform you of one other thing
ZargonX> yes?
Aidun> The strategy of GoW with ND is not the only one.
Aidun> How are your contacts with GS
ZargonX> GS?
Aidun> Sailing over the sea is pretty easy with the Lighthouse
ZargonX> You fear they would come to Bob?
Aidun> I have strictly confidential info: GS has refused a NAP
ZargonX> hrm... I would not think they would be so bold as to try Bob...
ZargonX> that is quite an undertaking
Aidun> to be exact: a NAP bound to trade deals
ZargonX> ah
Aidun> but still. You guys don't want to see GS invade Bob too
ZargonX> No, not at all
ZargonX> GS having controlling interests in Bob is a very scary thought
Aidun> but they still have an army that is strong and the borders with Vox hardly need any defense
ZargonX> yes, Vox seems to be out of the picture
Aidun> unless you'd let them develop in the north.
Aidun> Tose land aren't too bad
ZargonX> you've seen?
Aidun> I can see the coastline of it. We musrt have acquired it by trading WM's
ZargonX> yes... the coast looks nice...
ZargonX> it's not so nice once you get off the beach :P
Aidun> ah poor voxians
Aidun>
ZargonX> anyway, I'm sorry to run, but I have some RL business I must take care of
ZargonX> I will back a little later though, but I suppose that's quite late for you
Aidun> Ok, I'll PM you ASAP
ZargonX> sounds good to me!
Aidun> make sure your parliament agrees
ZargonX> I will be ready for it
ZargonX> I will present it to them and we shall discuss it as urgent
ZargonX> so, until later!
ZargonX> it's been a pleasure!
Aidun> cya
Aidun> to me too

[ZargonX]

My impressions of the chat.

-RP is scared. And GoW's actions are pretty suspect. The backstab of ND is possible, but seems unlikely to me.
-RP is still obsessed with mapping us somehow. They are willing to give up the WM clause, but they still want a coast map.
-The GS issue; I don't think GS is planning to invade now, but they probably don't want to get involved with NAPs. I wouldn't put too much weight in that prospect.

[Sharpe]

Yes, RP is either scared or it is a very devious ruse (more likely the first one)

RP has ALWAYS been obsessed about getting our map

We should talk with GS and GoW - try to get NAPs with both (which ironically if they are wanting to war on Bob they will be very willing to give). I still think we should pursue an anti-Bob invasion defense pact idea with GS.

[vondrack]

Zargon, why do you tell Aidun to send us a draft when we have already agreed upon that we are not entering an alliance with RPers? Would it be not better to tell them, no delays? This just raises their hopes - how are we going to look when they send us the draft (which will clearly read: DEFENSIVE ALLIANCE, as indicated in the chat) and we respond: sorry, we cannot enter a defensive allaince with you, as we cannot land on Bob...?

[ZargonX]

Well Vondrack, frankly I'm interested in seeing what they propose. If I tell them an outright NO, we get no more info out of them, and probably permanently sour relations with them for the rest of the game. If they give us a proposal that we can haggle over for a good while, ultimately rejecting, then we've learned more about their situation, and not come off as completely insensitive to them.

[vondrack]

Originally posted by ZargonX
Well Vondrack, frankly I'm interested in seeing what they propose.

Placing my bet: we will get exactly the treaty that was on the table months ago, but without the clause about our world map.

Originally posted by ZargonX
If I tell them an outright NO, we get no more info out of them, and probably permanently sour relations with them for the rest of the game. If they give us a proposal that we can haggle over for a good while, ultimately rejecting, then we've learned more about their situation, and not come off as completely insensitive to them.

Ummm... as if our relations could sour any more...

Nevermind, it is probably a matter of personal taste.