Roleplayers - correspondence & foreign affairs

[ZargonX]

And here's the draft...

El tratado de defensa Hispano - Legolandico / Legoland - Spain Mutual Protection Treaty

Article I
Definition of the territory


The territory of Spain is defined as all land inside Spain's cultural borders and all lands on the continent named Bob south of the Spanish city of Toledo.


The territory of Legoland is defined as all land on Legos Major.


Article II
Redefinition of the territory


Either party may propose to redefine their national territory and the change shall be effective upon the agreement of the other party.



Definition of the territory of both parties may be changed if:


New territories will be found, under the condition that these new territories are fully explored and unsettled by any other nation;


New settlements, that are outside of the land defined in Article I, are founded;


New territory, that is outside of the land defined in Article I, is accuired in any way;


Territory, that is part of the land defined in Article I, is lost in any way.



Article III
Causes that activate the alliance


If another nation settles on the land that is defined in Article I, while the party that claims this land has informed an official of the settling nation, that they claim those lands, both the offended party and the other party in the treaty will declare war on the settling nation, if the party that claims these land requests this, unless the alliance can persuade the settling nation from either evacuating or handing the settlement over to the alliance member whose territory is occupied, or retreat in any other way.


If any violation of the territorial integrity of the territory of either party, as defined in Article I, is being conducted, both parties will declare war on the atacking nation, if the attacked party requests this.



Article IV
Non-settlement & Non-agression ageement

Neither party shall settle in the territoriy that the other party has claimed to be his as stated in Article I. Neither party shall enter the claimed territory of the other party without prior approval. Also neither party shall declare war on the other.


Article V
Duration of the Treaty


The Treaty shall have a lenth of 30 turns. It shall be effective from 70 BC (turn nr. 124) and expire in 380 AD (turn 154).


The Treaty may be extended for any amount of turns upon the agreement of both parties.



Article VI
Settlement of any war

Since both parties will declare war at the exact same time on any invading party, both parties will commit themselves to end the war at the same time. No separate peace treaties shall be made.



Justino Togas I, King of Spain

[vondrack]

OK, I have won my bet.

Have you learned anything interesting, Zargon?

j/k

Now, what do we do with this... ahem... "treaty"? It is exactly the same treaty we had our doubts many many turns ago - and we are 100% sure we are not going to sign it now, with our rather fine relations with both GoW and ND, sour relations with RPers and them being the most likely target of the next war,... so, what do we tell RPers and how?

There is one thing I should point out - the treaty only obliges both parties to declare war, not commit any troops, so once we pull this card, we should expect RPers to counter by agreeing to that we would not be expected to commit troops to help them, but at least to declare war (read: stop trading) on whoever might attack them. Which we do not wish to do either, but is more difficult to explain while sticking to a friendly note.

[Kloreep]

FYI: Aidun asked me if the draft had arrived and I told him it had been posted in our forum.

GG, comment later.

[lmtoops]

The basic problem is that it seems to be one-sided. In all likelihood, we will not be invaded, but RP will.

As far as an excuse, I would be very up front. We see the risk of a Legoland invasion to be very small and we are willing to take that risk.

[Sharpe]

Another concern we had the first time was the real possibility that RP would make peace before we could - leaving us holding the bag - or declare war and then do nothing (like they have in every Bob war so far...)

While I was interested in seeing what RP would send, I agree that it is rather one-sided - I mean what do we get out of this deal? If any of the Bob civs invade us , it is very possible that we can get the other Bob civ(s) and probably GS to join with us against our attackers, which would likely overwhelm any possible invaders...

This is really a "Legoland help us please" treaty by RP and it is awfully tempting to treat it as such. However, that would likely completely alienate us from RP -refusing to sign the treaty might do so anyway (not that is necessarily a bad thing of course )

My suggestion: stall and see what happens , we don't have to do anything until someone happens on Bob (and it sure looks like that is going to be soon...) In the meanwhile, we should chat with our more friendly nations, to see which way the wind is blowing with those civs... especially GS and GoW and try and sign NAPs with them)

[Kloreep]

Aidun tried to talk to me in #tabemono earlier today (however, I was gone and had accidentally left myself on-line. sorry Sharpe!):

How's the status of your parliament? Has it already approved the treaty? You know, things are getting "exciting" here

[vondrack]

OK, time to tell the RPers to stuff it.

Here is a draft of what I would like to PM them with:

Your Majesty,
Honorable Ambassador,
The People of Spain,

Regretfully, we have to inform you that after thoroughly discussing and considering your defense pact proposal, we do not feel we are able to sign it while honoring its spirit. Other treaties we signed in the past prevent us from actually assisting you in a war conflict effectively.

Instead of signing a treaty that we would know would be nothing more than a hollow shell, we would rather not sign it at all and help you with whatever troubles you may encounter on a case by case basis.

With the best regards,
vondrack, the FAM of Legoland

[Tiberius]

[ZargonX]

Looks good, Vondrack. Though, I'm sure resisting the urge to just type "stuff it, RP!" as tough :P

[vondrack]

You bet.

I kept postponing the draft for two or three days, 'cause I had no idea how to write what I had to write ("stuff it, RPers!") without insulting them directly and without prompting further negotiations. Though I'm quite sure they will get back to us anyway, inquiring about the nature of our obligations that keep us from assisting them "effectively"... how much do we tell them? Shall we mention ND?

[lmtoops]

Oh they will be asking for sure. They may be worried that we are in some Pact with the other civs (against them). We need to reassure them that no pact exist.

[Tiberius]

We should plainly tell them that we have a treaty that forbids us to land on Bob (without mentioning names), and thus we cannot help them with troops in a possible war.

[ZargonX]

Yes, I would not mention who, exactly, our agreement is with, but just that we are barred from landing on Bob for the forseeable future. If they want to know more than that, they're free to ask, but who says we ever have to answer

[Kloreep]

Yes, mention the treaty but not who we signed it with.

[ZargonX]

Short message from Aidun; they really seem to think this war is coming up fast...

ZargonX,

I am going on a holiday tomorrow. I have postyed a message in oir forum that I will be off from the 14th of July (tomorrow) until the 10th of August. In between I am only one day at home. As you understand, I wont be able to fulfil my duties as ambassador to your team during this holiday. You can finalyze the job of the Treaty with either Togas or BigFree.
I advise you to that quickly, we can see the swords of GoW already glittering from a distance and it won't take long for the war to start.

I wish you success with Legoland, may our teams compete in the final race.

greetings,

Aidun