Roleplayers - correspondence & foreign affairs

[vondrack]

Alright, I am a bit drunken at the moment... two bottles of white wine are two bottles of white wine, after all... unless I see someone objecting, I will PM Aidun with the PM as proposed after I wake up tomorrow... (I do not think I am in a state to take/do any FAM decision ATM... )

[Sharpe]

Alright, I am a bit drunken at the moment... two bottles of white wine are two bottles of white wine, after all... unless I see someone objecting, I will PM Aidun with the PM as proposed after I wake up tomorrow... (I do not think I am in a state to take/do any FAM decision ATM... )

Oh , why not? You being in a drunken stupor would give us plenty of deniability... (just kidding)

Sure, send it off tomorrow, looks fine and surprisingly restrained - even I am tempted to tell RP to jump into Lake Ontario...

[vondrack]

@ Steve

PM sent to Aidun and BigFree.

[ZargonX]

Well, you have to give them points for persistance...

Hi

We are in desperate times as you likely already know. I have come to ask for help, particulary in gold. We need a fw more upgrades and maybe a few rushes and we also need gold to pay Vox for Eng. Eng will help our troops reach hot spots more quickly. Our deal with Vox is for 200 gold buy eng.

Any and all help you can offer will be surely appreciated. This combined attack for our two neighbors, with both of their UU's and both coming into their GA will be a huge strain on Spain. We thank you for you support.

BigFree
Chief Ambassador of Spain.

[Tiberius]

Well, as much as I despise RP for their politics over this game, I'd like us to help them. It is in our best interest to have a long war on Bob, not just a blitzkrieg with the RP destroyed in 10 turns. Fighting against 2 civs, both of them in their golden ages and with powerful UUs is not that easy. We want at least a 20 turn long war, don't we? Two more nations "wasteing" their GA on building military is certainly helpful. There is only one big problem: let's pray for a great-leader free war

So anyway my suggestion is to help them with Engineering. How much do Vox owe us for that earlier loan? Was is 70 (IIRC)? Let's consider those money our contribution to Eng. This way RP would have to play only the remaining 130.

This way we wouldn't give them money from our treasury and still help them a bit. Depending on how bad they will be doing later we will discuss further help.

[vondrack]

Steve - here is the begging part you wished for!

It may sound surprising (after all the expressions of my dislikes towards the RPers), but I basically agree with Tiberius. Just like in the Voxian-GS war, it is in our best interest to have a prolonged war of attrition on Bob. No worries about GLs - no warring party is actually able to build anything useful with them now... Sun Tzu's has already been built, Sistine's is ours, Leo's we waived - and neither ND or RP have Edu that is the key to all other fine wonders (GoW has it, but wants Leo's and waived Bach's). Warring civs are unlikely to research, so we will quite easily be faster to anything we will want.

Helping RPers to get Engineering sounds like an idea... I would even go as far as considering few more gold (not much, just to make the sum rounded, like 70+30)... on condition they offer something valuable in return. And that valuable something should be luxuries. With Astro in 9 turns, they will be able to provide us with luxuries through their port in Barcelona (IIRC). So, if they are reasonable and offer at least one luxury for 20 turns (once the trade becomes technically possible), I'd benevolently help them with ~100 gold. Not too much (we need gold ourselves, right, Steve? ), but at least a token sum that would make it a bit easier for them to defend against the invading hordes.

BTW - the IDEAL outcome of the war would be slightly stronger GoW, ND with no change, and slightly weaker RP. But that is not going to happen, I think...

And as a side-note: I would prefer sending the gold to RPers directly, later getting those 70 gold back from Voxes. I don't think ANYONE needs to know we would be helping RPers...

[Tiberius]

Sounds good, except that I'm not really sure that Barcelona will be on RP's hand 20 turns from now. Nevertheless, we can propose the deal. In the worst case, we will get the luxuries from somebody else

Good point about giving the gold directly. Let's keep our involvement secret.

Let's propose the 100 gold for luxuries then.

[lmtoops]

We are starting a trend. Giving war loans and providing safe refuge for the loser. So...where will we put RP?

OK, I suppose we can loan out more money.

[redstar1]

So 'buy' Barcelona from RP..... then sell it to whoever wins

[Kloreep]

Agreed with 100 gold for a future lux.

Originally posted by lmtoops
We are starting a trend. Giving war loans and providing safe refuge for the loser. So...where will we put RP?

We'll give them a single city: Sandonorico.

[Sharpe]

Actually I don't think we should give them money - unless it is part of a trade for their luxuries (they now have 2 less customers to sell to ).

We should also see where GS stands on this war - to see if they are planning to intervene at any point (wouldn't surprise me if they want to weaken RP but not see them destroyed)

[ZargonX]

Ok, more fun from RP:

Togas> OK, you are the leader of Legoland, correct?
Togas> And you have a NAP with ND and GoW right now, right?
ZargonX> Yes, I am the leader of Legoland
Togas> We think we have a way that you can help us
ZargonX> what do you propose?
Togas> We propose giving you 2 of our cities next turn.
Togas> If we survive this war, we'd like to have them back. You would receive the luxuries and income they generate the entire time.
Togas> we believe that ND will honor their NAP with you, and that our people will be spared.
ZargonX> hm... an interesting proposition
ZargonX> I will take it to the senate for immediate discussion
ZargonX> did you have an idea of which two cities?
Togas> Santiago and Leon
ZargonX> check
Togas> It needs immediate discusion as we would do it this turn
ZargonX> Who has the save now?
Togas> we do
Togas> we plan to play it tomorrow and send it out at the 24th hour
ZargonX> ok, I will need to time to discuss with the others
ZargonX> they are usually around at this time, though, so we will get back to you as soon as possible

[ZargonX]

There you have it. They want us to stand as legal guardians of their two cities while war wages around them. For the record, I also told Togas that I would have to check if such an action would violate any of our treaties with other teams (they are still unaware we DON'T have a NAP with GoW yet, officially, and I'd rather they didn't).

But, as for the actual plan, this has ZERO benefit for us. In fact, it could easily lead to very bad things for us. ND could construe it as a violation of our no-landing treaty, even with no units. ND could just up and attack the cities, putting us at a state of war. And, on a more basic level, I think it throws off our coruption numbers, and we can't have that

[Kloreep]

I agree with you, Zargon; we gain no benefit. Even if we had a harbor connection back to Lego, lack of astronomy means we couldn't get anything to the mainland. And doing this is going to piss off ND, violation of treaty or not, as we are clearly just getting in their way.

Perhaps send the 100 gold for a future 20-turn lux deal at the same time as the response to this? Might soften the blow. A little.

Edit: Crosspost with Tiberius. And in case I didn't make it clear, that's a big fat NO from me as well.

[Tiberius]

Originally posted by ZargonX
But, as for the actual plan, this has ZERO benefit for us. In fact, it could easily lead to very bad things for us. ND could construe it as a violation of our no-landing treaty, even with no units. ND could just up and attack the cities, putting us at a state of war. And, on a more basic level, I think it throws off our coruption numbers, and we can't have that

I agree with Zargon, that would be a bad move. That would certailny piss off badly ND and GoW, ruin our relations with them, rise corruption, and so on.

That's a NO from me.

Edit: our treaty with ND says:

Legoland agrees not to: enter Borconia (Bob) in the next 50 turns.

I'd certainly consider having a city on Bob as "entering" Bob. I think we don't want to enter in legal disputes about wether having a city on Bob violates or not our agreement. It certainly violates the "spirit" of it (GS would love my argumentation )
RP may think that we have only NAPs, but they don't know about the no-entering clause.