The Sweetness and Light Game

[Bloody Monk]

Some Thoughts

SCG,

--I left the sliders at 424, as I think we will need some cash to fund the huge white goods project ahead. The vans at sea will help, but the Americas are far away.

-- If Mean City gets a sewer right after Sir Ike completes, the food box will not be wasted. We can get size 13 without changing Lux.

--Manipulating the tech choices by swaping the Romans for Physics will allow us to select Explosives next. It won't be available without the swap. Demo or Metal will be available without a swap, however.

--Some selective tech gifting may be in order. The Germans are working on Sanitation and the Indians, Medicine, among others. Might be able to move then on to something we can swap for. Also, we have four more techs than our key civ, though I don't recall what the start was.

--I suggest we get a few key techs before Fundy causes our tech rate to fall. The SG's suggested going all the way to Spys first; if not that far, at least Explosives, Railroad, Corporation, IMHO.

--Our little Republic is about to take off. Have fun.

Monk

[Bloody Monk]

And the save...

[Bloody Monk]

Setup and Prep Work

Looking at this situation, I like what I see. There are many possible paths from here and some good suggestions from the previous contractors.

We are about to get sanitation and ST completes on hitting enter. This suggests a sewer and cranking Lux for WLMonkD. But our other cities are not ready to celebrate; they need many harbors, markets, ducts, and some land improvement. Let's see if there are other options.

The Greens have Invention and are building Leo's...but they are Receptive. I decide to swap them for Invention and start a race for Leo's Shop. This will solve the trireme/caravel dilemma and give the usual benifits as we get better mil-tech. Then we can scoop up Sir Ike and thenbuild the sewer and helper improvements.

Game Log

--Contact Greens. They are happy to trade us their Invention wisdom. Such rubes. Moves tech rate to 5 turns.
--Contact Indians and give them everything but Theory of G-spots. Moves tech rate back to 4 turns. Get Maps. Ask for gift --> they bust the Alliance. This sends our boat home for us.
--Contact Romans. Give a few and get new map. These guys have been busy.
--Change build orders for caravels to camels (which will make our triemes caravels with Leo's Shop)
--Shakespeare's Theatre builds overnight. Amer, change to Magellan, Germs to Leo...could be interesting.

1080 food vans HG/Green

1100 food vans Beg/Big/Bad...Sanitation --> Chemistry

1120 food van MeanC

1140 food vans Max; Silk in Sticky...Complete Leo's Shop Others change to King Rich.

1160 Greens build King Rich, Rom/Ger switch to Magellan.

1180 Harbor in Pool

1200 food van HG

1220 food van Green; Gems in Beg; Gems in MeanC. Boston builds Magellan; Rome learns Physics; Chemistry --> GunPowder

1240 Harbor BadLeRoyBrown.

1260 Harbor Sticky Meanie... send out ship with three good vans to Amer. Sir Ike's is half done with the needed vans arriving soon.

The Monk slips out the back, being thankful this game has no Institute.

[Bloody Monk]

SG(2),

Happy weekend!!

Thanks for the quick response.

Based on your experience with the American AI, I am inclined to think the Indian alliance won't last long anyway.

Monk

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by SCG


actually a city only needs to bring in 2 gold for a marketplace to pay for its maintenance (2*150%=3). Also keep in mind that a marketplace means 50% more luxuries in the city, so will celebrate at a much lower lux rate. I notice both cities are at least size 7, meaning they probably were celebrated up in size? If so, the marketplaces accomplished their goals.

One other note, Green Meanie only has 4 luxuries (3 +1 from marketplace). with 1 less luxury, we would need an entertainer, or to move a worker from the forest to the sea to prevent disorder = we are getting 2 extra production towards caravans each turn.

Actually, neither had a market when they both got to size eight. It was done with 80% Lux. See the 480 save. The markets came later.

Your point about the breakeven cost misses my point (which I did a poor job of stating.) Until you can get four gold as "base tax" (which will = six gold with a market) a market does not add to tax collections, net the maintenance. Anything less than four is spinning your wheels and has an opportunity cost in terms of what you could have built instead. That's why I say it is a waste; a waste of time, shields, and opportunity

Even now, Beggarsville generates only one gold from taxes. Far below breakeven. A Library would have brought in +4 beakers per turn. Your point in favor of Green Meanie is valid if you are willing to give up +7 beakers for +2 shields per turn. I lean to greater science and don't mind hiring entertainers.

Much later, when we finally get to Fundy, libraries will be unimportant, as we will run with zero science slider. At this time, our emphasis is on science so we can get to Fundy sooner.

Not saying you are wrong; just offering this for your consideration.

Monk

[SCG]

Originally posted by Bloody Monk
Received wisdom is to build markets where taxes bring in at least four gold. Otherwise, the annual maintenance makes them a waste.

FYI

Monk

actually a city only needs to bring in 2 gold for a marketplace to pay for its maintenance (2*150%=3). Also keep in mind that a marketplace means 50% more luxuries in the city, so will celebrate at a much lower lux rate. I notice both cities are at least size 7, meaning they probably were celebrated up in size? If so, the marketplaces accomplished their goals.

One other note, Green Meanie only has 4 luxuries (3 +1 from marketplace). with 1 less luxury, we would need an entertainer, or to move a worker from the forest to the sea to prevent disorder = we are getting 2 extra production towards caravans each turn.

[Scouse Gits]

Hi Monk!

1) We have Navigation so disbanding Triremes into Caravels makes sense as they will move 4 and carry 3.

2) No chance of swapping with the Babylonians whilst their "great minds work on Leo's."

3) No gifts from Indians. On balance we didn't want to lose the alliance as they are the key civ. Your point about the air ticket home is well taken. Try it!

4) We are at war with the Americans as they demanded 150g tribute when we attempted contact.

Good Luck with your turns.

-------------------

SG(2)

[Bloody Monk]

Someone earlier (I won't say who) remarked that they had changed build orders from libraries to markets. Please look at the 1060 save and notice that Beggarsville and Green Meanie are gaining nothing from their markets, whereas, libraries would have been additive to beakers.

Received wisdom is to build markets where taxes bring in at least four gold. Otherwise, the annual maintenance makes them a waste.

FYI

Monk

[Bloody Monk]

Re: More Sweetness

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
...Sanitation is a quarter of the way in; Shake's builds on the turn; Mean City scheduled for explosive development after Sewer System & Bank (hint, hint); triremes coming home to disband into Caravels for ship chain to Rome (hint, hint, hint); Food caravans on the way for Ike's - looks pretty good - we fancy getting to Commie & building a zillion vet spies prior to Jihad.

We played 20 turns so please play 10 turns each now.

I understand what you have done and your hints are well taken...except the bit about disbanding triremes. Is this because the Lighthouse will go out pretty soon, making them landhuggers again??

I suppose you tried to get Invention from the Greens and they declined while working on Leo's?? Or did you defer swapping techs because the Germs have Great Lib??

How valuable is the alliance with Purple?? You didn't mention any "gifts" from them. Getting them to disband will put our trireme on jets, allowing for quicker disposal.

Finally, what happened with the Americans?? A few turns back we exchanged maps, now we are at war??

Just a few questions. Hope you don't mind and can get back soon.

Monk

[SCG]

just out of curiousity - i bribed a caravan in the no science game - it was in one of our city limits, so it was supported from one of our cities. Is there a ruling for if we bribe a caravan and it turns out to be NON? (thats the only time i ever rehome a caravan)

[Bloody Monk]

The Monk has the ball. Will play tomorrow, I hope.

What's caravan rehoming??

Monk

[La Fayette]

Caravan rehoming is allowed in CFC's GOTMs.
Someone probably got mixed up

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
No more caravan rehoming!

The SGs

Ididntdoit!

But, yeah... I would have though that 'no rehoming vans' was up there in the same rules strata as 'no reloading bad huts'...

[Scouse Gits]

No more caravan rehoming!

The SGs

[Scouse Gits]

Play Order

SG[1]
SG(2)
Bloody Monk
SCG
Bob_Smurf42
La Fayette
-JRabbit
STYOM
obiwan18
Old n Slow

10 turns each please

The SGs once more in concert