Diplomatic contact with the Data Angels

[binTravkin]

disagree. We must research Int: Int in order to gain CDF - remember choppers cannot attack bases, and as such, land assault of bases are more viable option than building a wast number of needles. Angels would redirect their research towards Eth:Cal. Besides, if Sparta agrees to trade Eth: Cal to Angels, they might be afraid they will complete CDF before them so I don't think it will work.

Hey Illuminatus!

Are you shizophrenic or what?
WHAT ATTACK?

Who is going to ATTACK?

And wake up - WE CANT RESEARCH INTINT - ETH CALC IS NOT IN OUR LIST!!!

HOW DO YOU IMAGINE A LAND ASSAULT ON ISOLATED CONTINENT?

WE'D RATHER NEED MCC!!

if Sparta agrees to trade Eth: Cal to Angels, they might be afraid they will complete CDF before them so I don't think it will work.

Who completes and who is afraid?

[Chaos Theory]

The CDF is definitely not worth delaying useful boreholes, IMO.

[binTravkin]

Read this and express your opinion:

Greetings!
This is Gaian Lord of The Progress calling..

I've not been officially authorised for diplomatical missions, but as a former AI diplomacy advisor and therefore not so inexpierenced in diplomacy I contact Data Angel officials.

The reason of this seemingly unexpected move from me is our High Council's lack of activity in this case. Also as a Lord of progress I consider it very reasonable and even crucial to take part in negotiations regarding technology.

But let's get closer to the case:

Doctrine Mobility, Social Psych, Doctrine Flexibility

You might be well aware that Gaian Union (my comrades, Gaian scientists) has already acquired 2 of those 3 techs.

As a scientist by heart I highly dislike situations when two scientists research the same without knowing each other's effort, because if they did the research with combined efforts, they'd achieve twice that much.

So, it is not been officially approved, but the feeling at the Lordship of Progress is that we must show goodwill and friendship, and must help out our fellow Data Angel scientists.

Therefore we make you know that we will be willing to disclose our data on both Dotrine Mobility (as a part of deal signed before) and Social Psych, so that you don't need to trade them from Spartans.

But, as the saying goes, "nothing's for free", and we also want to make sure that we receive a fair amount of data in exchange.

Therefore we ask you to propose Spartans a deal which sounds:

Doctrine Flexibility and Ethical Calculus (Spartans) for Doctrine Loyalty (Data Angels)

This is only a draft for a deal, but it could be very profitable to both of our factions.

Data Angels will then disclose their newly acquired techs also to Gaian Union and do it immediately (or immediately after embargo has ended) and research Intellectual Integiry or Secrets Of Human Brain and disclose those data as soon as the research has came to an end.

The results of such a deal would be:

Spartans gain:
Doctrine Loyalty

Gaian Union gains:
Ethical Calculus
Dotrine Flexibility
either Intellectual Integriy or Secrets Of The Human Brain

Data Angels gain
Doctrine Loyalty: EDIT!
Ethical Calculus
Dotrine Flexibility
either Intellectual Integriy or Secrets Of The Human Brain
Social Psych
Dotrine Mobility

You can clearly see that this deal is most profitable to Data Angels

Lord of Progress
binTravkin

AND: I'm sorry for the outburst of anger above, but I have repeated multiple times that from srategical viewpoint Gaian Union is in safety as soon as landbridge has been sunk.
Lord Illuminatus just seems to ignore that and promote miltary techs and projects more and more.

A few boreholes would give us more than a CDF!

[Illuminatus]

Eth: Cal is not in options to research, hwoever after receiving Doc: Flex it is. BinTravkin, I understand, but think fo it from a longer perspective - in future we WILL face war, and it will involve ground war. 20 or 30 free PD would do us a favour, and Spartans armed with CN and CDF would have be PBusted or gassed. We will face them, sooner or later, as everyone else. From strategical point of view, a few cruisers carrying infantry and rovers (in a 30 years or so) we are vulnerable - also it will take a good deal of time to sink the landbrodge. If we assume we get flex next year, it would a year to produce it, several years to move north and then sink the landbridge.
Also, II is prereq for Planetary Economics and Cyberethics (which lead to Presentine Algorythms).
And the disorder is not schizophrenia but paranoia We can build another SP, let it be CDF.

[Illuminatus]

BTW, nobody mentioned Yang is now obstinate towards Spartans. Hooray! Just a little more time till vendetta! He is obstinate towards Angels too - if their units meet soon they might find themselves in war against Yang.

[Illuminatus]

Also, I found out that Angels have Gene Splicing (probably deal they had with Spartans they mentioned).

[binTravkin]

Eth: Cal is not in options to research, hwoever after receiving Doc: Flex it is. BinTravkin, I understand, but think fo it from a longer perspective - in future we WILL face war, and it will involve ground war. 20 or 30 free PD would do us a favour, and Spartans armed with CN and CDF would have be PBusted or gassed. We will face them, sooner or later, as everyone else. From strategical point of view, a few cruisers carrying infantry and rovers (in a 30 years or so) we are vulnerable - also it will take a good deal of time to sink the landbrodge. If we assume we get flex next year, it would a year to produce it, several years to move north and then sink the landbridge.
Also, II is prereq for Planetary Economics and Cyberethics (which lead to Presentine Algorythms).
And the disorder is not schizophrenia but paranoia

Ok, youre paranoid!

1.I repeat:
A few boreholes would give us more than a CDF!

2.30 yrs?
Maybe someone can build army and fleet in 30 yrs, but transporting doesn't take 0 yrs!
It will be 50 yrs at least!

3.Landbridge will be sunk just in time - when Impact start flooding in.

4.

we WILL face war, and it will involve ground war

AFAIR in my PBEMs where I was so far from enemies as we are, I have NEVER expierenced any serious land action - it's always either copters, PBs or Locusts or all together!

5.all those prereqs and techs are good if you have the means to build those SP and een research them. With your research speed we will be last to get those techs even we start right now, the best choice to boost both our research and production is BOREHOLES!
Are you afraid of them?
You're trying to be a pure Gaian?
pure Gaian = dead Gaian!

We will face them, sooner or later, as everyone else.

If you ever knew how I doubt this!

EDIT:
Even Neural Amplifier would give us more - we could have units whose defense rating will only be dependant on lyfecycle and we can surely get high lifecycles for our worms!

[Illuminatus]

Aghh, I quit. I just hope I won't be forced to tell you I TOLD YOU SO in six months.

[binTravkin]

BTW, nobody mentioned Yang is now obstinate towards Spartans. Hooray! Just a little more time till vendetta! He is obstinate towards Angels too - if their units meet soon they might find themselves in war against Yang.

And what did I say?
Nobody listened to me..

[Chaos Theory]

In 30 years:

We should have Air Power.
We should have pop boomed.
The land bridge will be gone (not that the Spartans would use something so dangerous).
Cruiser transports will need to be escorted by AAA ships to stand a chance of not being shot down.


If we want to attack the Spartans, should they be thoroughly entrenched, we won't be able to use conventional warfare. No biggie, as that's not what we're good at. The other options are:

Native life - expensive, but they ignore perimeter defenses and force opponents to diversify into trance defenders
PBs - very expensive, and with nasty repercussions
Probe teams - expensive, but devastatingly effective, if done right.

Who says we need to come into face-to-face conflict with the Spartans ever? It's in our interests not to, and to make it undesirable for the Spartans to. Who cares if they overdefend?

[Illuminatus]

I listened, but it takes contact for Yang to declare vendetta against them - Spartans may soon withdraw their rover after Yang hypotheticaly requests them to do so, or even disband it. If they manage to avoid his teritory and units, even with seething relations it will take time for Yang to declare war against them. At least Hive-Angel war would be good, since we would appear as protector allies to them (and we could charge them for sinking their land bridge too).

[Ouro_827]

OK, I'm back... after reading this, I have this to say. I agree with Illum... binTravkin, we are going to face a ground war. We're dealing with Sparta, Hive, etc. Choppers are out. You said the two other tools were PBs and Locusts. Locusts, we would win at. PBs.... That is a long ways off, and it would bring everyone down on them. If someone was to attack us, they wouldn't want all of Planet on us, and they wouldn't want to attack our strong point. That leaves ground units, and lots of them. Probably rovers, to have a retreat, and a speed advatage on our worms.

[Chaos Theory]

The problem with sending rovers at us is that there's not a lot of time left before aircraft and choppers. Choppers can annihilate a force of rovers, mineral for mineral. By measuring population growth, it seems Sparta has been investing considerable resources in population growth. Since they have that industry penalty, I do not believe they could have a large military by now. They don't have a lot of time to build one if they hope to attack us.

[Ouro_827]

Very good point. I was going on the assumption that we would be attacked... We may not even have to worry about an attack, as you say.

[binTravkin]

So is anyone keen on ground battling anymore?

By my measures Sparta has 2 techs left till D:AP
They have Gene Splicing and I don't think they wasted any time on acquiring HEC (from Uni)
If they don't have it, they will have it quite soon because methinks next tech in Yangs priority list IS HEC.