Sid games C3C: how to improve our skills

[Drachen]

Originally posted by sabrewolf
yep, CFC seems to have quite a few female players.

drachen, actually, diathanus programmed the whole functionality of the mapfinder utility. moonsinger had the idea and did the GUI part. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showth...hreadid=75992&

I stand corrected. Special thanks to Moonsinger and Dianthus for their Map generator utility. I really felt that I needed a good start to beat Sid and I had a second computer running generating maps for various tribes with at least one cow and one river tile. I also wanted to have an ocean start for early Curraghs feeling that I could move my capital to a better position later. I’m not sure that we’re going to need to have two cow starts in future games as our strategies improve, but for now I can only say that this little program saved me a lot of time. I'll post an early screenshot and you'll note that the start position is a mixed bag. Lots of good resourses close in but poor turf further out. On the other hand the settings were arid, cool, and 3 billion so I wasn't really expecting to get grass and rolling hills in three directions,

[vmxa1]

You can get by without bonus grassland at Sid, so this is a good start. I would prefer a few BG tiles if it was a Demi game.

[Drachen]

Originally posted by vmxa1
You can get by without bonus grassland at Sid, so this is a good start. I would prefer a few BG tiles if it was a Demi game.

Hey Vmxa1;

It's probably pretty hard to see but there are three BG tiles and one grass under forrest which could have a bonus. Then you add a wheat, an Ivory, 2 cows, and a goody hut. Not bad in my opinion

[Drachen]

Originally posted by Mountain Sage
and then we were three...

Hey Mountain Sage;

I’m wondering if, in addition to the points you made in your post, you were able to compete with the AI in research because you streamlined your empire thereby reducing unit costs and corruption. As I posted, in my game Carthage seemed to be researching a little bit quicker than I was towards the end even in it’s reduced state, with no trades, with no tech theft, and in constant warfare with other civs. I had a completely improved core and solid periphery. I had captured Newton’s and Copernicus’s in 3/4 corrupt Carthage. I used my battle with Babylon as a leader factory and built several police stations etc. to improve the output of marginal cities. Most of my trash cities were set to wealth and my captured citizens were set to tax and science as needed and I still couldn’t keep the tech lead I got from ToE. So, I’m intrigued by your game and wonder if you’d care to post a save or two from just about anywhere after Education.

[vmxa1]

In every Sid game I have played out to the modern age, the KAI was able to research at a 4 or 5 turn pace. This means you cannot do it faster than them, the best you could do is match that pace.

I could not even get within a mile of that pace, even with a large empire and all the functional cities loaded with structures.

The maint for units would be anywhere from 150-240 per turn, but that is not enough to let me pass them or even catch them.

I remember in the last one, I could add 30% to the research and not move off the current turn rate. That rate would be in high twenties. Now I would be in Monarchy, so I lost beakers, but I was a comercial civ and I suspect that if I was in Republic, it would be the same. I would think the increased cost of unit support would eat the gains, not sure but with about 400 troops...

There may be something here to learn, but so far I have not been able to understand it. I am hoping to see some more runs from others that used a similar tack as MS and see more details along the way to shed light on what the consequences are of being in republic at those stages.

I just have not been able to get by with much less troops than I used and I though I was rather thin for Sid. In atttempts where I build less, I got in big trouble.

The progress is slow as the games are very long, so we do not see a lot of reports.

[Mountain Sage]

Originally posted by Drachen


Hey Mountain Sage;

I’m wondering if, in addition to the points you made in your post, you were able to compete with the AI in research because you streamlined your empire thereby reducing unit costs and corruption. So, I’m intrigued by your game and wonder if you’d care to post a save or two from just about anywhere after Education.

That's perfectly true. From the beginning, I wanted a not-so-big island, as to reduce corruption and avoid unnecessary costs. The fact that I was isolated until the discovery of Navigation gave me a big boost in gold by having no military costs. I had only posted military units on all tiles on the two islands on the east, as to avoid a possible invasion (the cannons in the victory screenshot). Then I put about 15 Caravels around my island as early warning units.

Then I did a mean trick: I built about 10-15 Privateers and put them off my shores. Twice the Celts sent the standard 1 Frigate-2 Galleons stacks towards my shores. My Privateers had lots of fun...

I will prepare a short AAR with a few screenshots this week-end and post them on Monday.

[Drachen]

Thanks oh Sage one. I'll be looking for your post.

I did things a little differently because I like it when the galleys land on my island. Carthage had one spot they really liked to land on and I had a stack of trebs and Ancient Cavs just waiting for promotion. Probably no more anti-invasion units than you had early on although I was building defensive units in anticipation of my counter invasion.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Mountain Sage


Then I did a mean trick: I built about 10-15 Privateers and put them off my shores. Twice the Celts sent the standard 1 Frigate-2 Galleons stacks towards my shores. My Privateers had lots of fun...

The std I see is 3 frigates and 1 galleon. Then 3 destroyers and one something.

Only in the very earliest stage do I see only one escort. As soon as they get one fleet attacked they shift to 3 to 1.

Did they not declare war on you after enounters with your privateers? I never build them so I am not familar with it.

[Mountain Sage]

Originally posted by vmxa1

Did they not declare war on you after enounters with your privateers? I never build them so I am not familar with it.

No, that's the beauty with Privateers, they are anonymous. Besides that, they are pretty useless...

[Mountain Sage]

Well, this is the long-sought AAR.
Unfortunately, when I play, I play and forget to put down in writing how the game unfolds. At least, this time, I kept some saves, just in case…

4000BC: as everybody knows by now, it’s not the best start, but the game won’t be won by a an additional wheat or a shielded grassland. The opening moves: Curragh, Warrrior, Curragh Warrior. I lacked Masonry (Palace pre-built) and Pottery (Granary) to be able to arrow for the GLibrary, therefore early contacts were my priority. As I started with Alphabet and BC, Writing was my first research at 50 turns.

2630BC: contacts with Egypt and the Celts. No trading yet with Egypt (+ Masonry, Pottery and B. Working) and the Celts (+ Masonry, Pottery, B. Working and WC).

2030BC: contacts with the Zulus and Aztecs. I traded Alphabet with Egypt for Masonry and Pottery. Now they have the Wheel and IW. The Celts lack Alphabet but have the Wheel, IW and WC. The Aztec have the Wheel, WC but lack CB. The Zulus lack Masonry and Alphabet but lack Masonry and Alphabet. As I don’t need any new techs right away to expand/improve my empire, I will refrain from trading for a while. 262 gold (+8) and Writing in 7 turns. Only 1 city (size 5, 2 Workers, lux 10%), with a Granary completed and a Temple in 1 turn.

1700BC: Writing long completed, Philosophy in 41 turns at 100%. 293 gold -3/turn.
A second town was added to our empire… Contacts with the Maya (+ the Wheel and WC, - Alphabet and CB). Egypt + the Wheel, WC, IW, Mysticism, - Writing. Zulus + the Wheel, IW, WC, - Masonry and Alphabet. The Celts + the Wheel, WC, IW and Mysticism, - Alphabet. Aztecs + the Wheel, IW, WC, - CB and Writing. All pretty impressive advances by he other civs, but without Alphabet/Writing, no means of being less isolated (except the Celts and the Zulus, of course).

1600BC: contact with Arabia. + the Wheel, WC and Mysticism, - Alphabet. Philosophy in 31 turn, -2/turn. A third city, Vino Tinto, was added to our glorious empire…

1075BC: Most civs discovered Polytheism, but were backwards in respect of Writing, except for the Zulus (parity), Celts (+ Polytheism) and China +CoL.

1000BC: bought Polytheism with Writing, traded it with China for CoL, and got the Republic as free tech. The GLibrary in 40turns and a few pics of the overall situation.

[Mountain Sage]

My economy in 100BC:

[Mountain Sage]

And the overall score. Still not Nr. 1....

[Mountain Sage]

150BC: a great leap forward. With the GLibray and my contacts I got all the Ancient Times techs except Construction and Currency. The Republic in 11 turns, 1993 gold + 45/turn. Cina and the Celts – Literature, but the Celts and the Zulus were at war, which should set back their research.

210AD: one of the most important decisions. The (dis-)placement of the Palace and FP.
The tech race: Celts and Arabia (+Literature and the Republic), Aztec, Inca, Egypt and Maya hopeless, China + the Republic.2669 gold (-14/turn), Currency in 8 turns.

[Mountain Sage]

Slowly catching up...

[Mountain Sage]

300AD: the Middle Ages. Feudalism in 28 turns at -1/turn.
500AD: Engineering in 1 turn, Sun Tsu pre-built ready. The Celts have already Feudalism, China at parity.

850AD: Sun Tsu in the pocket, Leo in 4 turns. Celts + Education, - Invention and Gunpowder. China + Chivalry – Engineering, Invention and Gunpowder.
In order to keep my advance in seafaring and scientific techs, I decided to build Copernicus’ Observatory and Magellan’s Voyage. Since I went for the lower branch, I traded Engineering for Theology with the Celts and researched Education for myself (owning the GLibrary!).
Still improving...