Would you like to play a game??

[L.É.V.]

Originally posted by Bloody Monk


Has to be to an AI city on the same continent within 22 tiles from your source.

Thanks.

I highly recommend reading solo's EL Guide. There is so much really good information

Yes, I've already skimmed through it several times. But, as you say, so much valuable info that I had forgotten this bit.

[Bloody Monk]

@ L. E. V,

Here's an interesting if somewhat obscure varient on the general rule.

Even if the AI city is within the 22 tile range of your city, you will not get the road/rr bonus if the two cities are on opposite sides of the dateline. This very rarely happens as the map generator almost always puts the dateline in the ocean. It happened in one of the EL contests we played (3 yrs?? ago) and caused much consternation--and wasted effort--until the dateline was noted.

What a wonderful game this is!!

Monk

[Bloody Monk]

Does anyone want to be next??

Monk

[defrancoj]

I'd like to take a turnset (it's ten turns, right?)

Problem is I have been travelling around Eastern Europe. I'm in Budapest right now and I have access to a PC for the next day or two.

I never played succession and I haven't been following this game but it looks like someone needs to revive it. So if someone will email me and tell me how to proceed, I'm in!

[rjmatsleepers]

Here is a copy of my e-mail to defrancoj. Others may wish to add more.

"Taking a set of turns in this succession game is relatively staright forward. Firstly, download the latest save - this is AD 780, posted by Elephant on the 12th July. Next play 10 turns, keeping a log of what happens. Finally, save the position after your 10 turns and then post this and your log.

The essential things to remember are that we are using version 2.42 and we have agreed to remain spotless. You may find it useful to read Eelephant's comments and the previous comments by other players. We are aiming for a spaceship victory, so you should work towards that as far as possible.

That's all I can think of at the moment."

RJM

[defrancoj]

Unfortunately I don't have access to 2.42--or to MGE at the moment. I guess out of enthusiasm I threw my hat in the ring too soon. Definitely by the end of next month I'll have reliable access to a good old PC with a copy of 2.42 on it--back in NY. At that point I'll start nagging people to start a new succession game. I imagine that it's a good low stress way of playing that I should have gotten into a long time ago.

[Tim_Augustus]

Hmmm....

If no one has any objections, I would like to have a crack at this one

Hopefully I won't screw it up too much

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by Tim_Augustus
Hmmm....

If no one has any objections, I would like to have a crack at this one

Hopefully I won't screw it up too much

Welcome Tim. The game is open to all with v2.42. The ruleset for the game is in the first post and background on Early Landing attempts, if needed, is topped in the Civ2 Strat Forum. If you have any questions please ask.

Good luck and good fun!!

@defrancoj,

Not to worry. At the rate this is unfolding, a month's wait on your part will find things not much beyond where you last looked over the game. We'll see you then.

Monk

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Tim_Augustus
Hmmm....

If no one has any objections, I would like to have a crack at this one

Hopefully I won't screw it up too much

Go for it - good luck!

RJM

[Tim_Augustus]

Turn Log – 780AD – 980AD

Priorities – Newton is available, gunpowder is to be avoided…

1. 800AD –

discover AT; Railroad selected (Gun,RR)
Two Arbela silk vans land near Tenochtitlan; Aztecs make contact, offer trade (no), demand steam engine (yes), gifted Economics...
RB vans in Arbela, Pasargadae, Persepolis
Greeks have discovered gunpowder – give them Chemistry and we might get explosives and put off learning gunpowder…

2. 820AD –
Susa silk van delivers to Athens – 178g (or thereabouts…)
Arbela, pasargadae, persepolis build vans
Central Station founded, (70,12)… we’ll see if its worth it…

3. 840AD –
RR discovered, industrialisation selected (gun,ind,war)
few cities go into revolt – I forgot that RR makes HG obsolete
Arbela silk caravan arrives in tenochtitlan – 560g
RB some more vans…
Eastern caravel disbanded, diplo on eastern galleon

4. 860AD –
Ind discovered – warrior code selected as there’s bugger all this time
Delivered arbela silk to tenochtitlan – 573g
Newton’s picked in arbela – 5 vans + 600g
Gift all techs to Mongols, rr to the greeks
Taxes to 1.4.5 (24gpt, 4 turns)

5. 880AD
Warrior code discovered, corporation selected
Vans in arbela, pasargadae, persepolis, tyre
Beads van delivered to Athens – 177g
Sardis silk to tenochtitlan, 88g
Tarsus beads to teotihuacan – 56g
RB some more freights…

6. 900AD
Corporation discovered, Feudalism selected (again bugger all, gunpowder and communism only…)
Rail to Central Station completed
Arbelas beads delivered to Sparta (230g)
Arbelas Silk delivered to Tenochtitlan (592g)
RB freights in lots of cities…

7. 920AD
Feudalism discovered; Refining chosen
Arbela beads van delivered to Teotihuacan – 230g
Arbela gold van delivered to teotihuacan – 230g
Realised that feudalism has made warriors unavailable... damn
Bought the zulu caravan, 197g – not quite a bargain… and it’s salt..

8. 940AD
not much happening this turn, moving lots of freight around…

9. 960AD
Refining discovered, changed to chivalry…
Arbela silk freight delivers to tenochtitlan (d) 626g
Wine van to teotihuacan – 230g
8 vans put towards mikes in central station

10. 980AD
Chivalry discovered, communism selected..
Mikes Chapel built in Station City
2x arbela dye vans to teotihuacan, 230g each
arbela silk van to tenochtitlan, 640g
arbela salt van to Zimbabwe – 105g – hasn’t shown up on arbela’s list of trade routes? How does that work out?
With 2200 odd gold from deliveries, bought vans in every city except tyre, which is producing a settler

And it’s time to hand over to the next player. I haven’t yet switched to democracy, but with mikes constructed the next player should be able to… Communism probably wasn't the best choice, but there wasn’t a large range of choice again that turn; in fact you could say as much about most of my research
Other than that things are looking ok, I think.

The save:

[Bloody Monk]

Tim_Augustus,

Thanks for the good turnset. You have moved the ball down the field nicely.

Who wants next??

Monk

[Bloody Monk]

Another viewpoint...

Originally posted by Tim_Augustus
Turn Log – 780AD – 980AD

Priorities – Newton is available, gunpowder is to be avoided…

1. 800AD –

discover AT; Railroad selected (Gun,RR)
Two Arbela silk vans land near Tenochtitlan; Aztecs make contact, offer trade (no), demand steam engine (yes), gifted Economics...
RB vans in Arbela, Pasargadae, Persepolis
Greeks have discovered gunpowder – give them Chemistry and we might get explosives and put off learning gunpowder…

Looking at the Attitude screen and the Intelligence screen of AI techs we need, I see something else that may be First Priority. With all the redheads in our cities it seems that Mike's would be a better choice for a WOW. And Gunpowder is available for trade now (in 780) from the Greeks. At this point in the game waiting for AI research is not expedient (especially with gifting a tech and hoping they will make the choice we want). Plus, by getting Gun now, when we discover Atom, Explosives will be offered to us.

Getting Gunpowder has other advantages. Delaying RR gives time to build Mike's to compensate (somewhat) for losing HG. Even more benificial delay will result from picking Metallurgy --> Electricity ASAP. The advantage here is cancelling out the Khan's Great Library quickly. By having the option to gift the Khan our new research we can also upgrade their Attitude.

--Also, I see that poor little Bactra is still supporting a Settler which is keeping it from growing to size 3.
--There is a great need for camels to build Mike's so I would use some of the cash surplus to rush them everywhere. Cash pays no interest afterall.
--Do these things before hitting Enter.

This is getting longish so I'll continue in another post.

Monk

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by Tim_Augustus

2. 820AD –
Susa silk van delivers to Athens – 178g (or thereabouts…)

If you move workers to maximize trade arrows before delivery, the bonus will increase, in this case to 222g (IIRC). Perhaps you just forgot??

snip
Central Station founded, (70,12)… we’ll see if its worth it…

3. 840AD –
snip
Eastern caravel disbanded, diplo on eastern galleon
snip

980a snip
arbela salt van to Zimbabwe – 105g – hasn’t shown up on arbela’s list of trade routes? How does that work out?

Was the Eastern Caravel/dip disbanded it sea?? Since you did not then revolt to Democracy that action could have waited until it got back to homeport in Tyre and contributed those shields to something.

Was Salt Demanded?? Only Demanded goods have a chace.

I think building the Station City may have been built too late, as discussed in post #222. The only way I see now to dislodge those Aztec routes in SSC is to wait until Teotihucan goes into disorder and deliver on that turn Demanded vans to Zim. It will be costly to stop all Aztec deliveries but a second option might work...road all tiles in SSC (to increase its arrows) and then make a Demanded delivery to Zim. Maybe that will dislodge an Aztec route, but there is no way to know if that will make the Zim deliveries stick. Too many folk before you skipped this action earlier on when 3 Zim deliveries would have stuck for the entire game. You did your best.

And it’s time to hand over to the next player. I haven’t yet switched to democracy, but with mikes constructed the next player should be able to… Communism probably wasn't the best choice, but there wasn’t a large range of choice again that turn; in fact you could say as much about most of my research

Here is something that may help you with research choices...check out solo's EL Guide, point 2.5.3.

Each tech is given a number 0, 1, or 2. When '0' is the current tech, only techs on the '1' or '2' list are available. So each tech comes up for two turns and then skips a turn. Every new tech (including trades and huts) moves things on to the next one(0->1->2). It helps to keep track of things if you put the tech number of each tech beside its space on your "Advances Chart" that came with the game. Writing down which tech cancels WOW is also a good reminder...for example, "X-HG" beside Railroad.

Especially in EL games remember that Communism reduces the effect of Cathedrals (Mikes) by one until Electoronics, which gets it back. I try to avoid Communism at least until then. If Maco Polo is important (when is it not?) skip it altogether and don't give any AI Indu, to keep them from researching it.

Btw, your log reads as if you researched several techs that could have been traded for first. Doing one trade could have opened up your list of mostly deadend choices. By checking the Research Choices list you will always know in advance what you will be offered. Next time it will be (can be) easier.

Monk (I hope this has made some sense--I am very tired now.)

[Tim_Augustus]

Re: Another viewpoint...

Firstly, thanks Monk for your very detailed critique, you make many excellent points.

Originally posted by Bloody Monk



Looking at the Attitude screen and the Intelligence screen of AI techs we need, I see something else that may be First Priority. With all the redheads in our cities it seems that Mike's would be a better choice for a WOW. And Gunpowder is available for trade now (in 780) from the Greeks. At this point in the game waiting for AI research is not expedient (especially with gifting a tech and hoping they will make the choice we want). Plus, by getting Gun now, when we discover Atom, Explosives will be offered to us.

I didn't think about it that way at all... I was to busy worrying about losing the 10 & 20 shield units for rushbuying.

Getting Gunpowder has other advantages. Delaying RR gives time to build Mike's to compensate (somewhat) for losing HG. Even more benificial delay will result from picking Metallurgy --> Electricity ASAP. The advantage here is cancelling out the Khan's Great Library quickly. By having the option to gift the Khan our new research we can also upgrade their Attitude.

I can also see a need for refrigeration and getting the SSC back to celebrating in democracy... Currently it has 22 citizens giving it 2 einsteins but this could be boosted quite easily

--Also, I see that poor little Bactra is still supporting a Settler which is keeping it from growing to size 3.
--There is a great need for camels to build Mike's so I would use some of the cash surplus to rush them everywhere. Cash pays no interest afterall.
--Do these things before hitting Enter.

Monk

Mikes chapel has found its new home in Central Station (I referred to it as simply station city in the log)

It certainly could have been built earlier though, doing so would have allowed me to adjust the taxes earlier and squeeze out some more scientists. In hindsight, newton's effectiveness was reduced due to lowering the tax rate 10% and probably could have been delayed in favour of Mikes.

[Tim_Augustus]

Originally posted by Bloody Monk


If you move workers to maximize trade arrows before delivery, the bonus will increase, in this case to 222g (IIRC). Perhaps you just forgot??



Was the Eastern Caravel/dip disbanded it sea?? Since you did not then revolt to Democracy that action could have waited until it got back to homeport in Tyre and contributed those shields to something.

Yes, probably was a silly thing to do

I more or less gave up on Democracy due to not having Mikes, but on reflection that could have happened earlier

I'm tempted to go back and replay the turns using your advice, see how much better things could have been

Was Salt Demanded?? Only Demanded goods have a chace.

I think building the Station City may have been built too late, as discussed in post #222. The only way I see now to dislodge those Aztec routes in SSC is to wait until Teotihucan goes into disorder and deliver on that turn Demanded vans to Zim. It will be costly to stop all Aztec deliveries but a second option might work...road all tiles in SSC (to increase its arrows) and then make a Demanded delivery to Zim. Maybe that will dislodge an Aztec route, but there is no way to know if that will make the Zim deliveries stick. Too many folk before you skipped this action earlier on when 3 Zim deliveries would have stuck for the entire game. You did your best.

No, I don't believe salt was demanded... To be honest, I had assumed that the bonus and the route were calculated seperately and the better characteristics of the Zimbabwe route would allow it to replace the lower performing routes - I was expecting the zimbabwe routes to produce 20+ arrows each actually

I think a careful reading of the early landing guide is in order - it's 60 pages long though

Here is something that may help you with research choices...check out solo's EL Guide, point 2.5.3.

Each tech is given a number 0, 1, or 2. When '0' is the current tech, only techs on the '1' or '2' list are available. So each tech comes up for two turns and then skips a turn. Every new tech (including trades and huts) moves things on to the next one(0->1->2). It helps to keep track of things if you put the tech number of each tech beside its space on your "Advances Chart" that came with the game. Writing down which tech cancels WOW is also a good reminder...for example, "X-HG" beside Railroad.

Especially in EL games remember that Communism reduces the effect of Cathedrals (Mikes) by one until Electoronics, which gets it back. I try to avoid Communism at least until then. If Maco Polo is important (when is it not?) skip it altogether and don't give any AI Indu, to keep them from researching it.

I'd forgotten all about communism's effect on cathedrals

Shows how little I've been playing Civ2 in recent years... Also shows what a fantastically complicated game this is, the finest of all Civs

Btw, your log reads as if you researched several techs that could have been traded for first. Doing one trade could have opened up your list of mostly deadend choices. By checking the Research Choices list you will always know in advance what you will be offered. Next time it will be (can be) easier.

Monk (I hope this has made some sense--I am very tired now.)

Thanks once again for your time and positive critique

Hopefully my fumblings will induce one of the grand masters to have a crack at it again