Would you like to play a game??

[Elephant]

I vote our next game be an Early Conquest Free-For-All...

[Sharkbait]

Early conquest would be good - count me in.

[rjmatsleepers]

I'm afraid I now worship at the altar of other gods. My contributions to the landing game were the only games of Civ 2 I've played since i started Civ 4. I'll just lurk and make comments from time to time.

RJM

[Verrucosus]

"Civ 4" ... that's some kind of spin-off from Civ 2, isn't it?

(Just kidding. Civ 4 is great, but it doesn't keep me from revisiting Civ 2 or even Civ 1. Even my attitude towards Civ 3 has mellowed since it has become a part of history.)

Verrucosus

[Bloody Monk]

@ Sharkbait

Unfortunately I have been struggling with health issues and haven't been able to get back to you about your log. There's just a few things to say because your understanding seems very solid.

1) in 1400 you rushed SETI in the SSC.
There are a few WOW that are best built in the most recent city and this is one (Cure is another and Space Flight). As each subsequent city is processed for that turn they get the benefit of the additional Science, as if the WOW was there already. Building it at the beginning of the queue yields an extra turn of the WOW's effects.

2)Airports and delivery bonuses
Both cities need Airports. If they are on the same continent the increase is 50%, 100% if on different continents.

3) Missing the tech trade in ~1440
This is tough in a Succession Game where Marco gets blinded by Communism during an earlier turn. Good practice would be to list any "white" techs for each Civ when an AI starts researching Comm. so that later players would know what is available for a trade. Otherwise, you are in the dark.

4) Building SS parts
Yep, missing that was unforntunate. The other thing that might have been useful was building more cities. One or two more would allow the SSC or another to build a Freight for trading purposes, or to respond to an emergency. Theoretically, 12 cities is enough for a two turn build, so this point is not critical (not enough space or Engineers to rush it up to 24).

5) Excellent preparation for building SS parts!!
There was a Freight in every pot, so to speak, ~ 65 waiting to be delivered for cash or for part building. Good job there. I used your save and achieved a 1555 Landing, More on that exercise in another post.

Well done!!

Monk

[Sharkbait]

Originally posted by Bloody Monk
@ Sharkbait

Unfortunately I have been struggling with health issues and haven't been able to get back to you about your log. There's just a few things to say because your understanding seems very solid.

1) in 1400 you rushed SETI in the SSC.
There are a few WOW that are best built in the most recent city and this is one (Cure is another and Space Flight). As each subsequent city is processed for that turn they get the benefit of the additional Science, as if the WOW was there already. Building it at the beginning of the queue yields an extra turn of the WOW's effects.

2)Airports and delivery bonuses
Both cities need Airports. If they are on the same continent the increase is 50%, 100% if on different continents.

3) Missing the tech trade in ~1440
This is tough in a Succession Game where Marco gets blinded by Communism during an earlier turn. Good practice would be to list any "white" techs for each Civ when an AI starts researching Comm. so that later players would know what is available for a trade. Otherwise, you are in the dark.

4) Building SS parts
Yep, missing that was unforntunate. The other thing that might have been useful was building more cities. One or two more would allow the SSC or another to build a Freight for trading purposes, or to respond to an emergency. Theoretically, 12 cities is enough for a two turn build, so this point is not critical (not enough space or Engineers to rush it up to 24).

5) Excellent preparation for building SS parts!!
There was a Freight in every pot, so to speak, ~ 65 waiting to be delivered for cash or for part building. Good job there. I used your save and achieved a 1555 Landing, More on that exercise in another post.

Well done!!

Monk

Many thanks for the feedback Monk. I like the SETI point in 1) - very good point. Will be using that every game in future!

Re 3), since we had OK relations with the AI I should just have visited them and seen what they wanted and if they had anything to trade. We were far ahead enough that even if I visited and had to gift a tech without getting a chance to trade (in order to keep good relations) it would have been worth it and not risked a space race.

Re 4) - I always seem to forget at least one thing every set of turns. And when its not a succession game and you mutliply that omission over the span of an entire game, I see why my results aren't any better than they otherwise could be! I like the succession games - I spend much more time over my turns than if it was just a game I was playing myself - but it has made me stop and take stock on a more regular basis in all games to try and ensure I stay on track.

And re 5) - I can't claim much credit - the previous players had set up so many freight in the right places that my turns were pretty simple, allowing plenty more freight to be built. Rehoming vans to the SSC make a huge difference in terms of cash and delivery bonuses.

A question re building the ship: I guess that the most efficient way is to use the vans of low value, non-demanded commodities for SS parts, but delivering the high values vans to the foreigh cities. Further, am I right in saying that it pays to use as many vans as possible to complete parts before rush buying the remaining with cash? I guess however you want to keep at least 1 van for each city for the next turn also so you can at least begin to build each SS part (by starting a wonder, adding the van/s, and then changing back to the SS part). I haven't really done much work on trying to optimise building the ship.

I bought Civ 4 a couple of months ago now I guess, but haven't opened it yet. I'm not actually sure what the catalyst will be to instal it! My time is somewhat limited, and since I'm enjoying Civ2 greatly at the moment, it may be quite some time, since I can't see how I'd find time to play both (have also got the recent Half Life 2 game sitting there too for the same reason).

I think I'll try and improve my early landing times over the next while - I must confess I can't remember what my best is.

Good luck with the health Monk!

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by Sharkbait

Many thanks for the feedback Monk. I like the SETI point in 1) - very good point. Will be using that every game in future!


A question re building the ship: I guess that the most efficient way is to use the vans of low value, non-demanded commodities for SS parts, but delivering the high values vans to the foreign cities. Further, am I right in saying that it pays to use as many vans as possible to complete parts before rush buying the remaining with cash? I guess however you want to keep at least 1 van for each city for the next turn also so you can at least begin to build each SS part.... I haven't really done much work on trying to optimize building the ship.

I bought Civ 4 a couple of months ago now I guess, but haven't opened it yet.

Good luck with the health Monk!

"Thanks, Sharkbait. I have a very upbeat, optimistic outlook on Life, but it's gonna be what it's gonna be. My last 2-yr Plus extension expires in March, an anniversary of sorts that I never thought I'd see. So every new week is gravy at this point. Playing and discussing Civ2 has been one of Life's great pleasures. The thing about old dogs and new tricks applies to me and Civ4; that and the computer upgrade it would require. It sounds like a good game though. Hope you enjoy it when you get more time.

A question re building the ship:

The easiest, fast SShip to build is 15S, 6C, 3M; it will land in 15 yrs. Adding the parts means a minimum of 24 starter Freights, ideally one each in 24 cities (or 2@ in the 12 cities of this game). This will let you Launch in one turn of building. Food or low value commodity Freights should be used for this but that assumes you have more than the 24 minimum to choose from. BTW, if you are wondering, using only the minimum 24 Freights requires an additional expenditure of 7680g to complete the builds. Once you have the 24 "junky Freights" set aside, you can either cash the rest for the expensive SS parts or deliver them depending on whether their expected delivery value is greater than 200g.


on trying to optimize building the ship.

Here is something to think on for the future. You have a good handle on calculating the beakers needed to complete a tech so this should be easy for you. On the turn you are about to finish Space Flight, set your build queue up so that every city, after the second to process, is set on a WOW with one cashed Freight. Set the second city to process to a 12 Freight WOW with 11 Freights cashed. Set the first city to complete something, like a Freight. Now to finish the setup, place a supported unit from each city in the city that precedes them in the build queue, plus a Unit from the first city in the second and another second city Unit in the last city on the list.

If I have explained this properly this is what will happen after you hit "Enter." A screen will popup announcing the completion of the Freight in the first city, followed by the sequence for the completed SpaceFlight tech, followed by the opening of the first city screen. If you right click on the supported unit from the second city and toggle "Zoom to Host City" it will take you to the second city. Change the WOW to Apollo (now available after discovering SF) and buy the remaining shields, ~200g. Click on the supported unit from the first city and "Zoom" back there. When you "Exit" in the first city you will complete Apollo in second city. When the second city opens after the WOW movie click on third city Unit and "Zoom", changing the build order to "Structural" (again, now available) and buying the 120g remaining to complete. "Rinse and Repeat" thru the cities, clicking on another second city Unit in the final city. This takes you back to the second city and when you hit "Exit" you will cycle thru all (up to 15) cities completing "Structurals." This way you complete Space Flight, build Apollo, and finish a load of Structurals all in one turn. Saves two turns in completing the SShip. (Really helps to have at least 15 cities.)

Admittedly, this is a bit of a brain-twisting exercise and extreme micro-management, but Early Landing is about squeezing things down to the fewest turns possible.

Have fun...

Monk

EDIT: This has taken me all day to compose so the post on an earlier 1555 Landing will have to wait.

[Straybow]

Wow, Bloody Monk, I didn't realize it had been two years!

Maybe I'll have time for the next succession game...

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Bloody Monk

on trying to optimize building the ship.

Here is something to think on for the future. You have a good handle on calculating the beakers needed to complete a tech so this should be easy for you. On the turn you are about to finish Space Flight, set your build queue up so that every city, after the second to process, is set on a WOW with one cashed Freight. Set the second city to process to a 12 Freight WOW with 11 Freights cashed. Set the first city to complete something, like a Freight. Now to finish the setup, place a supported unit from each city in the city that precedes them in the build queue, plus a Unit from the first city in the second and another second city Unit in the last city on the list.

If I have explained this properly this is what will happen after you hit "Enter." A screen will popup announcing the completion of the Freight in the first city, followed by the sequence for the completed SpaceFlight tech, followed by the opening of the first city screen. If you right click on the supported unit from the second city and toggle "Zoom to Host City" it will take you to the second city. Change the WOW to Apollo (now available after discovering SF) and buy the remaining shields, ~200g. Click on the supported unit from the first city and "Zoom" back there. When you "Exit" in the first city you will complete Apollo in second city. When the second city opens after the WOW movie click on third city Unit and "Zoom", changing the build order to "Structural" (again, now available) and buying the 120g remaining to complete. "Rinse and Repeat" thru the cities, clicking on another second city Unit in the final city. This takes you back to the second city and when you hit "Exit" you will cycle thru all (up to 15) cities completing "Structurals." This way you complete Space Flight, build Apollo, and finish a load of Structurals all in one turn. Saves two turns in completing the SShip. (Really helps to have at least 15 cities.)

Admittedly, this is a bit of a brain-twisting exercise and extreme micro-management, but Early Landing is about squeezing things down to the fewest turns possible.

Have fun...

Monk

A master class in space ship construction.

For anyone wondering about the 6 year difference between our 1561 landing and Monk's 1555, the difference comes from my failure to build a spaceship part in Gordium on the first construction turn. This was crucial since we only had 12 cities. As a result I could either wait an extra turn to build a 15-3-3-1-1-1 or build a 15-2-2-1-1-1 on the second turn. The faster ship would have taken 6 years less travel time, but would have been launched a turn later. At this stage turns take 10 years, so landing would have been 1565. Having made the construction mistake, the earliest landing was with a slower ship launched 10 years earlier.

RJM

[Sharkbait]

That is the best explanation of using the "Zoom to Host City" that I have seen! I haven't used this before, and previous posts on it have mainly confused me as to how it actually works. Many thanks - I'll have to give it a try with this game.

[Achilles_X]

If there is to be a new game of Civ2, or if there is a nation available in a presently ongoing game, I'd like to join.

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Achilles_X
If there is to be a new game of Civ2, or if there is a nation available in a presently ongoing game, I'd like to join.

We've had difficulty getting people to join in recently. The last democracy game ended a long time ago. We just finished a succession game which went rather slowly at the end. What sort of game are you interested in?

RJM

[Achilles_X]

I'm game for anything. It's incredibly hard to find a Civ2 multiplayer game these days, so as long as I'm playing with other human beings, I'm not too picky about the settings.

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Achilles_X
I'm game for anything. It's incredibly hard to find a Civ2 multiplayer game these days, so as long as I'm playing with other human beings, I'm not too picky about the settings.

This thread has been used for a sucession game. You'd probably be better starting a new thread. I'm afraid I don't go in for MP, myself.

RJM

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Good grief, this thread is still going...