Would you like to play a game??

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man
Good grief, this thread is still going...

Well ... actualy the game finished last month, so this thread is nearly dead.

I wonder whether it was the last Civ2 succession game?

RJM

[Sharkbait]

I think there will be more succession games. There is one going at Cav Fanatics at present (D+3). I'd be keen for another here at Apoly too. Maybe an EL game without van rehoming?

[Tim_Augustus]

Originally posted by Sharkbait
I think there will be more succession games. There is one going at Cav Fanatics at present (D+3). I'd be keen for another here at Apoly too. Maybe an EL game without van rehoming?

Sounds great - I'll try and play a set or three if you set it up (and I promise to do a better job this time round )

ps. Hopefully I can get Civ2 running on the 32bit version of Vista?

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers


For anyone wondering about the 6 year difference between our 1561 landing and Monk's 1555, the difference comes from my failure to build a spaceship part in Gordium on the first construction turn. This was crucial since we only had 12 cities. As a result I could either wait an extra turn to build a 15-3-3-1-1-1 or build a 15-2-2-1-1-1 on the second turn. The faster ship would have taken 6 years less travel time, but would have been launched a turn later. At this stage turns take 10 years, so landing would have been 1565. Having made the construction mistake, the earliest landing was with a slower ship launched 10 years earlier.

RJM

Sorry for the delay in posting this...I was unavoidably diverted by an impromptu Conquest Game (of sorts) with the Grim Reaper. I won this one but the dude keeps demanding rematches. He does seem to have a very strong long term winning streak, a real grinder.

I agree with the thrust of RJM's point and thought that was what the difference must have been. What accounts for the difference is important to discuss relative to playing Succession Games.

I always try to closely examine the 'received' save for hidden pitfalls, no doubt inadvertently left by the previous player. In this case it was Freights with "Go To" commands. It seems a useful exercise to go thru the city screens and track down and remove any such commands...before starting to play. In this game, I also unchecked all the Engineers so that they might be available for a more strategic task.

Doing this allowed me to found a few more cities and deliver both of the Gordium Freights that were set to "Go To." That was the difference.

Finishing out the 1520 turn, 2 new SShip parts cities were built, RR were extended, completed 5 Struct, 6 Comp, and 3 Mods; ~ 35 Freights were delivered or cashed for parts; and the Sliders were changed to begin celebrations. The SShip was completed and Launched next turn thanks to the huge number of stockpiled Freights.

Also, a note for post launch efforts to keep the Mongols pacified until the Landing. Trade maps and make at least one delivery every turn and they will not Sneak Attack. Trading maps with the lesser developed civs will keep them in line.

Strictly for instructive purposes for those who might want to see more detail, here is the 1520 save.

Monk

[Bloody Monk]

Before we close this out, I want to thank everyone for their participation in this Succession Game. We began this journey last May after interest in playing/learning something new about Early Landing Games was expressed by several folk. I mentioned at that time that I had played this map and was interested in seeing how it would play out in a Succession setting.

For those who might want to see another approach to this map, I will post my log (made in the "Indian Summer" of 05) and the Launch save. If anyone has a question or wants to see other saves, please give a shout.


XE 35X40 Early Landing Game


4000b Settler opens hut: Horse; Horse opens hut: Chariot; Settler founds first city, Persepolis at 70,6. Set Warrior.

3950 Settler founds 2nd city Pasargadae at 70,10. Set Warrior

3850 Explore; Persep Warrior (will explore); Cere Burial

3800 hut: AT Susa work forest, settler to burn down city and move to sweet spot.

3700 meet Zulufolk Trade (T)and Demand Alpha and Bronze, explore

3500 Code of Laws; explore

3450 Hut- 100g

3300 Arbela 69,27; from the remains of Susa-AT; set Warrior (new cities build--Warrior then Settler)

(Getting an Advanced Tribe from that hut and moving to the sweet spot turned out to be a big advantage over the Succession Game.)

3100 Monarchy discovered; instant revolt; new Settlers in Per, Pas

2950 Found Antioch-4 66,14 and Tarsus-5 64,10; (T) MapMake and 50g from Zulu; Warrior in Per, set to COL

2650 Currency

2550 Settlers in Pas and Arb, each to make a road or two; change Ant to Trireme

2300 Trade

2250 Ant builds Boat, will pick up NON Horse for exploration

2150 Tar builds Settler, road then mine Coal; Ant Warrior for Per; Arb builds Settler

2000 Gordium-6 at 70,18; Settler for Pas

1950 Pottery

1850 Meet Greeks; uncover Silk 70,24

1700 Settler in Tar; boat explores South of Greeks; Irr Pas Buff

The original plan, after exploring the island fully, was to build an 8th and 9th cities in the Southern part. While these cities where eventually built, much time was lost, wasted actually, as I experienced a brain-fart and completely forgot about "The Plan." This was a major senior moment that added many turns to the result. If those cities had been completed in this time frame, they would have been contributing--and growing a thousand to 15 hundred yrs earlier. (Sidon-8, 180A; and Ham-9, 820A)

1550 Myst 1500 Mine for Tar

1450 Meet Mongols, get Maps, gift all techs (Science from 8 to 6); hut: Nomad; Bractra-7 (red) at 66,22, after Clearing Trees; 1st Van completed

1350 Boat bags Barb King; boat goes back to pick up exploring Horse and Nomad; Zu Irr & Rd at [70,30]

1300 Complete 1st WOW Marco Polo; Discover Writing; Sett in Gord

1250 Say hello and get Maps from all but Aztecs; there we T for Lit; Road from Ant to Arb complete

1100 Tarsus starts WOW, will be SSC

1000 Tarsus builds HangGardens; Irr begun around Tar-SSC.

(Forgot to add Setts to Tar to take advantage of HG celebrations. Letting it grow naturally was another mistake.)

950 Philosophy-->Polytheism

925 Greeks--T for Wheel; 208g Silk Per-Athens; expose hidden birds 65,17; Monotheism

875 92g Copp Tar-Zim, T for IronWkg Aztecs, maps

850-750 128g, 64g ; T for Seafaring Celts and T for Construction Zulu; Republic; Boat in Bactra

700-625 Mike's Chaple; Boat in Per, Pas Dip go Hut tipping.

575-500 hut: Astro; T for BrgBldg Aztecs; Medicine; Engin; 320g, 224g; Harbor, Temple in Per

450-400 Temple, Arb; Shake; 304g; Revolt to Republic, estab 425; Sanitation; Pop = 550K,
40 beakers at 70%, 26 techs in 450. Send Char to deal w/ Barbs in South.

375-225 Researching Invention--reduce Sci slider while WLxD for payoffs; Bank by Trade; Invent
Pop = 3.1MM, 130Sci at 70%, Lux to 30 for SSC only, now size 11.

200-100 Sewer; Gun; Democ; uncover 2nd Arb Silk; Sett in Bac & Gord & Ant; Hut- NON Crook; cash 1 Warrior to start/rush Sewer.

50b-a100 COPE; Univ and COL; Sett in Arb. Hut-NON Legion & Crook. Gord Boat. First Delivery to Zim (+10 arrows)

Waited way too long to complete the 2nd and 3rd Zim routes!! So much was missed in this game for lack of focus.

140-240 UnivOfTar; Sewer in Per; 160- size23...Metal; 180- Sidon; 220-Fort Zu; Monarc again; 240- Explo; Grow Forest for Gord.

280-360 LEO; 320 MktPl-Tar, Uncover Silk for Sidon & ThGrav; 360 Nav & Col-1 [7,31]

380-480 Mine for Bact; 400 Mine for Per, Phy; 420 Conscrip; 440 Aduc-Ant, Forest of Ant; 460 Mag; 480 2nd Mine-Per; Steam & Ike

520-540 Col-Per, revolt, Pop-5.9MM; 540: Democracy estab; Aqua in Gor & Arb; El-1

560 Jungle of Bact to Grass; 3rd Mine of Per; uncover 1st Silk of Col1

580-640 Atom; 600: Magell, Chiv trade-Mong & Econ; 620: Col-2 [8,26] & RR; 640: Indu, Pop = 8.6MM, 30% Lux; Tarus size 25.

660-740 Corp; 680 Ref & Col-3 [10,38]; 700 Combu; 720 Steel; 740 Lead

The 2nd Zim trade route estab in 680, replacing Athens Silk and boosting ongoing route to +18. 3rd route in 720. These RR bonus routes stuck thereafter. Had these 3 routes been completed earlier, the ongoing Science from trade routes would have been much greater. Must_stay_focused.

760-780 Darwin, Tac & Auto; 780 SupHi in Ant, Tar[Z routes-24, Sci = 772 beakers at 80%], MassP;

800-840 [b]MassT[b/] in Per, Tar [Z routes-35, Sci = 1026 beakers]; El-2 820 NucF & MacT, Hamadan [63,35]; 840 Mini &Comp

860-900 Flt; 880 Rad & NucP [Z routes 27, Sci = 792 beakers at 80%]; 900 CH-Ham, OFF-Gor, AdFlt, SETI in Col-2

920 CH-Co1, 850g, 780g, Rock & SpaceF [Sci =1056 beakers Tar, Total = 1904];

940 Trade for Fuedal-Mong, Plas & Las; 780g, 870g, 732g, 320g

960 Found Ergili-10; sell 4 SpHyWay; Trade for Theol- Aztec, SuperC, Apollo in Ham

980 Found C04; 588g, 672g, 804g, 272g; Apollo; Fusion

1000 804g, 524g; Sell 4LIB, 1UNIV; SSParts: 3Mod, 2Com, 2 Str; MobWar

1020 918g, 846g; 1TurnRush: 13 Freights (Disband 11 Rifles + 743g); Robot

1040 900g; Complete 13 Str (1770g); Launch 36 yrs, Arr 1096; Stealth; Sneak Att by Zufolk (no damage)

1060 Kill some Zu Units; 1061 804g, Recycle 1062 918g; Fundy

1063 MassT-Gor; Factory-Tar 1064 900g, 918g; Trade w/ Az Commun, Enviro

1065 564g; SolarPlt-Tar; HooverDam 1066 CH-Co4 &Erg; Aq-Co1; Tem-Ham; GueWar

1067 748g, 840g; ManPlt-Tar; LabUnion 1068 936g; Col-Co1, Tem-Co4 & Erg; JSBach

1069 AQ-Bact; Bank-Tar 1070 740g, StkEx-Tar, OFF-Erg Spy

1071 936g, 954g; Har-Co3, AQ-Sid, CH-Bact; IceBox

1072 672g, 840g, 936g; Har-Arb; Complete UN; AmphibWar; Zu sneak turns to suicide

1073-77 954g, 840g, 936g, 540g, 936g, 936g, 598g; GenEn & CombArms; Cure for C

1078 Say no to c/f then yes to 1950g sweetener--Zu; 984g; FutTec1

1079-82 984g, 840g, 936g, 434g, 936g; Capture Ulundi; FutTec2 & Mason

1083-88 936g, 462g, 564g, 850g, 608g, 954g, 559g; maps all; 200g c/f; FutTec 3&4

1089 RAR emerges: Revolt to Fundy. Capture Athens, Therm, Sparta, Marseilles, Rheims, 3 Celt Cities; 954g

1090 Capture [b]Orleans, Paris, Cardiff, & all 4 AZ cities

1091-2 Capture Lyon, Tours, Mong 5 Cities; only Zim left. Conquer world in 4 turns!!

1093 Revolt back to Dem for finish

1096 Landing on Alpha Centauri after 36 yr trip; 149%; Score 1152; 568 Citizens, Pop: 25.7MM

This was fun, and if it turns out to be my last game, it will be a fond memory. Happy Civing to all!!

Monk

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Originally posted by Bloody Monk
This was fun, and if it turns out to be my last game, it will be a fond memory. Happy Civing to all!!

Monk

I sincerely hope you have many more games in you, Monk. Although from looking at the log, there's not much to improve on!

[Sharkbait]

Thanks for the log Monk. I'm still going through it and
will play this game again trying to see how i compare (badly I'm sure).

One thing I was wondering - how much time do you spend managing your workers and which square they use, and what is your focus in the early part of the game - arrows or shields?

I also hope you have many games left in you - the Reaper can wait for his rematch!

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by Sharkbait
Thanks for the log Monk. I'm still going through it and
will play this game again trying to see how i compare (badly I'm sure).

One thing I was wondering - how much time do you spend managing your workers and which square they use, and what is your focus in the early part of the game - arrows or shields?....

Sharkbait,

The focus of the early turns has three parts (6:3:1 of 10); getting to Monarchy, building Settlers for new cities, and exploration. Therefore, arrows are emphasized over shields in the beginning.

City sites are chosen which will have at least three arrows (thanks, La Fayette ) to more quickly advance thru the tech tree. Along with this, the popping of huts is done only until the first advance comes from a hut; then no more hut popping until Monarchy. Otherwise, getting a second "hut-tech" will delay getting the improved Gov't. Every additional tech adds many extra turns to the current research so that also means refusing tech trades (or demanding tribute) from the AI unless it is for one of the techs needed for Monarchy. Just make a note of what they offer and come back to them after you get Monarchy.

The need for new cities should be self evident. You can have four until Monarchy Gov't, when playing Deity, before the red faced first citizen difficulties start. I delay roads connecting the earliest cities unless it is necessary to get the arrows up to three for that site. Getting down the first four cities ASAP is more important than road building --> again, speeds the path to Monarchy.

I will often explore for a few turns from the initial start before founding the first two cities, hoping to find a hut and then hoping to get an unassigned 4-footed Unit to speed up the exploration process. Exploration not only opens the map revealing potential sites for new cities and finding other Civs, but it also pushes back the dark areas making surprise visits by Barbs less onerous by giving you more time to react.

One last bit of early game strategy is city placement. Apart from the first, or Palace city, and the eventual SSC, I like to site the cities with only enough room for them to get to size 8, with the possibility of working 10 shields, eventually. That means there can be a good deal of overlap. I also like to save a place, if uncovered, for the eventual SSC to be founded as the 5th to 7th city. This site would ideally have several trade specials and be on the coast (to allow for a port and hosting of early ships). By having other cities processed after the SSC, many beakers are carried over to the next turn (especially over the course of the game) that would have otherwise been lost if the SSC city is the one that contributes the beakers that finish the current research. Finally, having many ports is usually a good thing on the maps I favor.

As to how much micro management of which tiles to work, I do it every turn. Before delivery of a van I move workers to max arrows and thereby max the payoff. Checking each city before hitting Enter has found many cases where I forgot to move them back. Also, there may be a need to move workers or sliders to finish a research project that turn. And then there is the "AI favors food over all else" feature/bug which means every time a city grows you need to go back and put the workers on the "best" tiles. This is especially crucial later on when you have boosted Lux slider for WeLove_, and you want to make sure there is enough food to keep growing.

Good luck with your replay and have fun!!

Monk

[Boco]

Keep writing these gems! They not only help my play in vanilla Civ2, but are also helpful when I design scenarios.

[-Jrabbit]

Monk, it was a pleasure to read you log. I've got nothing but smiling memories of the successions we've shared. Sorry I couldn't join this one, but it was great to watch nonetheless.

Keep on civvin'!!

[Straybow]

[q=Bloody Monk]And then there is the "AI favors food over all else" feature/bug which means every time a city grows you need to go back and put the workers on the "best" tiles.[/q]
Often you can leave one AI-prefered tile open when you know the city will grow. That doesn't work when the city shrinks because you just built a Settler or Engineer.