Technology beelining

[khumak]

I prefer going through AH or Pottery for the CS beeline as well, ideally with a civ that starts with Agriculture or Hunting. Typically the path I use is to beeline straight to Writing while I build a worker and scout/warrior. Then build my libraryand a settler while I backfill a couple of worker techs like Wheel or Masonry. Then I go back to beelining for CS.

IMO the diversion for the worker techs doesn't slow you down any because your main city grows faster which increases research speed as it gets larger. It also builds the Oracle and/or Pyramids faster so you're less likely to lose the wonder race.

I also consider it very important to get a settler out immediately after building a library because it's crucial to have that second city around to expand your empire while your main city is building wonders. Typically by the time my main city has built the oracle and pyramids my second city has founded 2 additional cities as well as building a few warriors and a worker or two.

I've been able to consistently get both Oracle and Pyramids so far but haven't played higher than Prince yet. Generally this strategy puts me in the lead technologically for the entire game with some of the AI civs occasionally getting ahead in certain branches (like Horse Archers).

I also agree with skipping the early religions and getting Confusionism as my first so I can guarantee that both my first and second will have the state religion without having to build any missionaries. Typically my research is fast enough at this point that I can grab 2 or 3 of the remaining religions if I want the extra shrine income. And having the free missionary for each of them is nice.

The only problems I've run into so far with this strategy is that you're delaying any military techs long enough that barbarians are sometimes a problem especially if you find out you have no copper or iron when you get to Iron Working. Having to do a mad rush for Horse Archers at that point is annoying.

I think if I was going to play this strategy MP I'd try for a civ that started with Hunting so I could take a short detour for Archers and/or Horse Archers. Could just be luck but I have NEVER had a game where I lacked horses but I've had a lot of them where I lacked both copper and iron for the first 4000 years or so. Plus even if you got royally shafted with no horses, copper, or iron you'd still have archers within a few turns if you needed them.

[Blake]

I'm not sure what game speed most ya'all are using. I tried this on Epic as Alex and it worked great. The start demanded this strategy, on a Peninsula with a heap of nice specials, with the mainland full of jungle leaving no real room for expansion (altough I did slip a single settler out at some point).

Since I was still starved of space I then grabbed Macemen and killed the Aztecs.

I'm also not sure if you're mostly using non-Phil civs. I noticed that with Phil a single scientist easily gets the Great Scientist. 2 scientists gets you a 2nd before long. It might be possible to use the 2nd GS to grab another deep tech (I think i was offered Paper), but I made an acadamy in my 2nd city for the culture mostly.

Also playing another phil leader I had some fun making a super-city with an acadamy and 2 super-scientists, wow it was cranking out some research. But since I was China I used the Machinery Gambit (which didn't pay off, due to no iron, despite being a Monarch game this proved far from lethal and I just grabbed Construction and used an axeapult army (i was lacking horses too)).

[V3nom]

I dont think that the pyramids should be considered a nice bonus, they double the power of the CS beeline. infact I would go so far as to say that if I had a choice between finishing the oracle to get CS or finishing the pyramids and researching CS I'd get the pyramids.

slap a library and 2 scientists up in another city you've put out and suddenly CS can be researched in 10-15 turns if you grabbed the pyramids.

[khumak]

Originally posted by V3nom
I dont think that the pyramids should be considered a nice bonus, they double the power of the CS beeline. infact I would go so far as to say that if I had a choice between finishing the oracle to get CS or finishing the pyramids and researching CS I'd get the pyramids.

slap a library and 2 scientists up in another city you've put out and suddenly CS can be researched in 10-15 turns if you grabbed the pyramids.

I agree. I consider Pyramids to be far more important to a tech beeline than the Oracle. Representation is MUCH stronger researchwise than Beaurocracy. In fact I'm usually still using Representation until very late in the game unless I've expanded beyond around 12 or so cities. At that point I switch to Universal Suffrage. It's not unusual for me to build pyramids in my first city while my second is building the oracle. Sometimes that means I miss the oracle but it's not that big of a deal. If I miss Pyramids though I'm pissed.

[QuantumPion]

I just tried this strategy. I did the hinduism->preisthood->writing->library->code of laws->oracle->civil service route. I had a great starting location on a penninsula that was blocked off by a peak, just the right size for 5 cities and no barbs since I had the whole area scouted. I'm not sure what went wrong but I fell very far behind the other civs. Even though I'm sure I should have been far ahead, all the other civs somehow caught up because by the time I made contact with them all, I was in last place by a wide margin.

[khumak]

I just had my first total loss with the CS beeline. Was playing the Chinese on Prince level and started off in the middle of a jungle with gems, bananas, corn, and elephants. Had no trouble building the Oracle first while still founding 2 more cities so I got CS, then snagged Alphabet so I could trade techs to backfill some stuff I skipped and then grabbed Bronze/Iron Working. To my dismay I discovered that there was no iron, no copper, and no horses anywhere within striking distance. The 1 set of horses that started somewhat close by were within the fat cross of Rome's first city and there's no way I was going to be able to take him on with just archers.

Soon after the barbarian Axemen showed up Rome sent the Praetorians after me. Game over. The closest iron was at least 20 moves away through Rome's territory and there was no copper on the whole continent. Didn't see any horses other than what Rome had. Not sure if there was much I could have done to save that game. There's no way I would have reached the iron deposits before the Romans unless I knew before the game started where it was.

[Aeson]

Construction for War Elephants and Catapults.

[Blake]

I had a damn good game with...
No Iron.
No Horses.
No Coal.
No Oil.
(Oh come on already!)
No Aluminium.

Basically, I had Copper and Uranium...
Oh, I did eventually get Ivory but that was post-War Elephants. I also got Marble and Stone late in the game.
I managed to trade for coal, and ninja'd some oil, but never did get any Iron, not even once... and didn't get Horses until post-Calvary. Oasis map. Crazy.

[cal_01]

Originally posted by Blake
I had a damn good game with...
No Iron.
No Horses.
No Coal.
No Oil.
(Oh come on already!)
No Aluminium.

Basically, I had Copper and Uranium...
Oh, I did eventually get Ivory but that was post-War Elephants. I also got Marble and Stone late in the game.
I managed to trade for coal, and ninja'd some oil, but never did get any Iron, not even once... and didn't get Horses until post-Calvary. Oasis map. Crazy.

No Coal? Ouch. Iron and horses you can live without, but Coal is easily the most essential part of the mid to late game (railroads).

[Blake]

With the no Coal, my buddies the English did have 2 coals, but neither connected. I actually gifted them some workers on the coal viens in the hope they'd get their game on, I also gave them Steam Power. Thankfully a few turns later they called up and offered the 2nd coal, I gave them 3 of my resources in exchange and they never bothered to break the deal.

[Arrian]

Being alone on an island continent is probably the best case for this strat, being that it generally results in a weak-as-hell military for quite a while. That's the start I got last night, and managed Pyramids + Oracle CS. I would be way out in front of the AI technology-wise, but for the Mali. Those SOBs are right with me, having cottage-spammed their territory. They actually beat me to some fairly key mid-to-late game techs (economics, for instance). If I had a halfway decent military, a chevauchée would be a good option. But I don't, so there I am. I'm workin' on that, though

-Arrian

[Cort Haus]

I'm obviously doing something wrong as you guys are all picking up the Pyramids on the Oracle-CS beeline without breaking sweat, it seems.

Assuming non-industrial civs, and assuming no stone (I haven't had stone near my start in any game yet), when do you build them - before or after the Oracle, and when does the Masonary detour happen? What year (assuming standard game) do they tend to complete?

[Arrian]

No, not w/o breaking a sweat, Cort. I get it sometimes, I miss it sometimes. And that's playing an industrious civ and I keep getting access to stone! I've literally had stone in 3 of my last 4 games. Granted, the stone wasn't particularly close to my start spot in my last game (my 3rd city was built by it), but it was available.

I build the Pyramids after the Oracle most times b/c it usually takes me a while to get to the stone. If I had stone in the capital radius, however... I might take a shot at it early. Anyway, I typically research the wheel and masonry right after I finish the Oracle for CS, so that I can build the quarry & hook up stone. During that time, my capital probably punches out another settler (having built 1 pre-Oracle).

Playing a non-industrious civ without stone, I wouldn't even try for the Pyramids.

-Arrian

[DeepO]

Originally posted by QuantumPion
I just tried this strategy. I did the hinduism->preisthood->writing->library->code of laws->oracle->civil service route. I had a great starting location on a penninsula that was blocked off by a peak, just the right size for 5 cities and no barbs since I had the whole area scouted. I'm not sure what went wrong but I fell very far behind the other civs. Even though I'm sure I should have been far ahead, all the other civs somehow caught up because by the time I made contact with them all, I was in last place by a wide margin.

Getting contacts early is very important, but without galleys or open borders it isn't always easy.

Secondly: we're talking about what to beeline to, but maybe even more important is never (and I mean never!) trade away alphabet first. Even after some AIs have alphabet, it's very rare I will trade alphabet away... trading CS is not so much of a problem if it nets you a couple of techs, but alphabet and you will have a hard time to keep up.

DeepO

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Aeson
Construction for War Elephants and Catapults.

Yeah, maybe we're too much focusing on CS in this thread, beelining to Construction is in some cases much more helpful.

DeepO