The YIN-VEL Fund: Join the FUN!

[MarkG]

Yeah, we'd better go with a commitee rather than the crazy masses

[Darkstar]

You guys should really contribute to this fund. If it wasn't for Yin, this forum wouldn't have nearly as much fun waiting on Civ4. You need him as your shadow, so you have something to attack and drive back. Besides, Vel is in. And it seems the whole forum wants to see what the True Master thinks of cIV.

BTW, Civ2 wasn't anything but Civ1 with better graphics and more, more, more. The only real advance in Civ2 was that they blocked the early Chariot Rush from Civ1 (and promptly put that back in for SMAC).

Now, I expect cIV should be a conservative iteration of a flagship TBS title. That's their market. It would be beyond brain dead to change the game too much. Baby steps forward... it's doomed by its prior success to that. It doesn't mean that Civ 13 won't be able to rock us deaf. It just means that it will take many versions of Civ for its designers to get around to finding an actual solution to ICS and such.

BTW, I'm rather surprised at you Yin. Picking on the graphics because they are cartoony? If the game is good, the graphics stop mattering in just a few hours. You don't notice them anymore. Unless they really suck, and make it difficult for you to be able to see the important information. You know, what kind of unit it is, what tile/territory it is actually on, what resources are located at a position, etc etc etc. Now, the screenshots I've seen have left me wondering if cIV won't be seeing a fast mod to lessen the visual clutter...

[Robert]

The people who contribute should decide if he should eat the box or not

[Darkstar]

How about the people that contribute pick the odd-number committee then? Otherwise, Yin would still end up eating the box, regardless. That doesn't seem fair to me.

[MarkG]

Originally posted by CyberShy
The people who contribute should decide if he should eat the box or not

they would have a motive to decide a certain decision i think

[Dale]

Originally posted by jomateix

An obvious thing is that it cannot be loved by all, but when something cost 60€ and in a week you don't want to use it anymore something is wrong (except probably for fresh fruit )

That's how I felt about Civ3. $110 for the LE version and I played it for two weeks. Does this mean Civ3 is a failure? No, it's all down to general opinion. Personal opinion doesn't dictate if it passes or fails, the industry does.

Dale.

[yin26]

Hey, I like the committee idea much better. Thank you for that thought. Yes, let's please assemble a group that we all respect. I will abide by the ruling!

Darkstar (thanks, by the way ): It's funny about the graphics for me -- if they are just low-level but the gameplay is great, I don't care. Ages of Man was kind of like that for me. But what I see in the screen shots look like graphics that scream "LOOK AT ME I'M A GRAPHIC AND AIN'T THIS GRAPHIC ENGINE PURTY? BOY, YOU ONLY THINK YOU'VE PLAYED CIV, BUT THE BACK OF THIS BOX TELLS YA SOMETHING DIFFERENT!"

And answer me this: That box cover art they released is God awful. Work with me here. True or false?

Anyway, my real stance on the graphics is that Snoopy will fix them for us, and Firaxis has done an awesome thing in opening up so much of the code for that purpose. I only ever talk about the graphics now when I harken back to first impressions and flashbacks of Pirates! 2 release.

[MarkG]

That box cover art they released is God awful. Work with me here. True or false?

false, it's pretty decent. i like the concept

[yin26]

Concept is O.K. Just seems like one of those drawing contests you see school kids entering at the supermarket. Hey, that's just me. It's like music, you know. Matter of tastes...speaking of taste, eating that ugly box might actually make me pretty happy!

[Jaybe]

That box cover art they released is God awful. Work with me here. True or false?

Pre-order cover art: Good, at least decent.
Standard cover art:

I am SO glad I pre-ordered!

[Darkstar]

Dale, is your opinion of the LE mean that you would do that again? Most people wouldn't unless they felt that they got their money's worth from it. Personally, that's why I buy most of my software at bargain bin prices. For $10, Civ3 is a really nice TBS game. For the retail price of Civ3, then PtW, then C3C, well, they might be a bit gun-shy.

Are you pre-ordering this time around? Or are you waiting? I know a lot of people that pre-ordered 3, but will wait and see on 4. That doesn't sound like a rousing success.

Firaxis schooled us long ago that Hype is more powerful in game design and publishing then actual Game. They instructed us that Hype will get them pre-orders and first month sales which is the only money the game industry can count on. The problem with that of course, is that if you don't have the Game to back up the Hype, many more of your customers feel burned or let down. That's okay for most game studios though, because they don't usually stay in business. Look at Sid's own game history, of moving about (and his learning of the power of Hype and using his Brand Name to help Hype titles published by his under-studies). Firaxis has had to kiss a lot of butt because of how they did Civ3, haven't they? Why? Because the customers remember, and they are still in the same business with the same name.

You know, that's the problem with hyping your brand. Surviving until the next game, and having your former customers recognize your brand. Firaxis has been telling that to us for a while now. They've learned their lesson. No more Hyping. They mean to give us a Game worth our Money, so we will spread the Word (which will help get all those previously unhappy/burnt customers to decide to buy it, getting Firaxis more Money).

You judge--- your company states that you have to bend over, grab your ankles, and kiss your fanbase's behind, just to have a shot at being a measurable success (ie, making any money). That's what Firaxis has told us, repeatily! Is that the measure of success? Or is it, say, as in the case of Star Dock, where they announce that they are going to make GalCiv2, and have more pre-orders in the first month then they had sales for the whole of GC1?

Firaxis is lucky that more of its prior fan base hasn't sworn them off entirely. They know it. This is a good thing for cIV customers, as this means Firaxis is doing its very best to make us happy this pass around. So, this means they are trying to give us much more then just an average sequel (ie, updated graphics, more everything, very slight tweak). That gives me hope that we may find more in cIV then past experiences would suggest.

[Imran Siddiqui]

No more hyping? Did you think Pirates! or even this iteration of Civ isn't hyped?

[Trifna]

First off, giving out my postal address on Poly wouldn't be fair --or safe-- to my wife and children. And given that I've "known" many a thing in Asia, that last bit intrigues me, I must say...

This is why I asked for a postal box, not necessarily your home address Anyway, if I can send it somewhere, all I need is an address. Like a Yale department?

[Trifna]

Originally posted by MarkG

That box cover art they released is God awful. Work with me here. True or false?

false, it's pretty decent. i like the concept

The question is not what it looks like

[Darkstar]

Imran, you mean, other then here? They have been pretty low key. Just a few interviews and previews. Not the full court press that was the wind up to Civ3. I mean, when I go into my game dealer, I mean, seller, they don't have big posters up saying "Coming this November! The Greatest Game Ever from the Game God Sid Meier! CIVILIZATION 3!". Heck, Civ4 isn't even on their list of upcoming games! Of course, they'll carry it, so no worries on that part.

Have you seen TV ads for it? They ran TV ads *here* for Civ3, for a month prior to its release. Their marketting machine dropped a wad of cash to get their Civ3 ads ran for a long block.

Hype? For Civ4? This is practically a stealth release.