Canada declares war on Catholicism

[Asher]

Keep up the good work Ben.

[Ben Kenobi]

Keep up the good work Ben.

What's going to happen when the Catholic schools refuse to abide by an unjust law? They are protected by the Charter. The province of Ontario cannot override the Charter.

[Ben Kenobi]

I hope you know that there is a difference between forcing someone to do something and forbidding someone from doing something

Both are infringements on religious freedom. Forbidding someone from teaching that homosexuality is wrong, is a violation of their religious freedom.

Just because the catholic church has been forbidden from denigrating homosexuals in public schools

You can't bar someone from preaching the Faith, just because you don't like certain parts of the faith. Is the Catholic school barred from teaching that homosexuality is sinful? Then it's a violation of their Charter rights.

doesn´t mean that she is/will be forced to do something (like performing gay marriages or even, praise the "homosexual lifestyle")

That's exactly what you are doing here - you're forcing a Catholic school to hold events supporting gay rights. Next up marriage.

[Ben Kenobi]

I would think they would be focused on ending bullying.

Yes or no rah? Answer the damn question.

Do you object to them trying to end bullying?

When they define bullying as 'expressing the opinion that homosexuality is sinful', yes, I do.

You're assuming just because gay is in the title that it would automatically be promoting sodomy.

If the club is defining opposition to homosexuality as bullying, then yes, it's promoting sodomy. If the club is teaching that homosexuality isn't sinful, then yes, it's promoting sodomy.

That is such narrow thinking.

I can always tell when I'm right. People resort to ad-hominem cheap shots rather than answering questions.

No you're missing the point. These aren't let's celebrate we're gay clubs, they're let's stop the bullying before more commit suicide clubs. You can't seem to differentiate. I guess you don't want to. If they haven't committed a sin yet, what is your problem?

Do the clubs teach that homosexuality is not sinful?

[Ben Kenobi]

I fully expected the principled Catholics to refuse this dirty public money now.

I find it odd that Catholics are expected to abide by section 13, which explicitly protects their freedom of religion, but their opponents are not. Is the constitution the law of the land, or can it be renegotiated whenever it's convenient?

If the province of Ontario wants to strip conscience protections away from the Catholic church, then they've said that the constitution is no longer binding on the legislature. If that's the case, then the schools aren't required to obey a law contrary to the highest law of the land.

[Asher]

What's going to happen when the Catholic schools refuse to abide by an unjust law? They are protected by the Charter. The province of Ontario cannot override the Charter.

The British North American act can and will be changed.

[Ben Kenobi]

Do you have any evidence that they wouldn't allow students to open up pro-life clubs if they so desired?

Look up the University of Victoria. They explicitly banned any prolife club on campus, and are still banning the club from hosting activities on campus.

http://www.righttolife.to/news/unive...ed-once-again/

People may have felt offended by the images but that in no way constitutes harassment. If you merely have to claim your feelings were hurt or you disliked someone’s message or way of expressing themselves to find that person guilty of harassment, freedom of speech ceases to exist.

Just like this case here. People get offended by what the Church teaches on homosexuality and believe that hurt feelings = harrassment and bullying.

[Ben Kenobi]

The British North American act can and will be changed.

Then do so via the amending formula. As it is the law passed by Ontario has no force on the Catholic schools.

[Asher]

Yes or no rah? Answer the damn question.

The answer is quite obviously "no". GSA don't deal with issues such as sodomy.

If the club is defining opposition to homosexuality as bullying, then yes, it's promoting sodomy. If the club is teaching that homosexuality isn't sinful, then yes, it's promoting sodomy.

I know many gay men who never engage in sodomy, why do you assume every man is into that? There's so much more you can do. Your obvious interest in it doesn't mean everyone else does it.

The vast majority of lesbians also never engage in sodomy.

The GSA has nothing to do with sodomy.

[Asher]

Then do so via the amending formula. As it is the law passed by Ontario has no force on the Catholic schools.

I think you'll see you are mistaken. It's also likely a court will apply rationality and strike down the provision from the BNA enforcing taxpayer funded bigotry and priestly sodomy.

[Asher]

PS: Why does God care about buttsex?

It's probably only in the bible to stop his clergymen from buggering eachother all day instead of recruiting for the cult.

[Ben Kenobi]

The answer is quite obviously "no". GSA don't deal with issues such as sodomy.

Does the club affirm that homosexuality and engaging in homosexuality is not sinful?

I know many gay men who never engage in sodomy, why do you assume every man is into that?

Because rah is doing everything he can to avoid answering the question. Same with you. See, when people avoid questions, I can always tell that they would rather bullshit me and call me names if it means not having to answer the question.

There's so much more you can do. Your obvious interest in it doesn't mean everyone else does it.

Yawn. Answer the question Asher.

The vast majority of lesbians also never engage in sodomy.

I'm amused that this wasn't the first argument you made. Yes, the church teaches that homosexuality is larger than just sodomy. Yes, the church teaches that homosexuality whether it involves sodomy or not, is sinful. Yes the church also teaches that sodomy is sinful.

So if the GSA fails any one of the criterion, then yes, it's inappropriate for a Catholic school to host one.

Of course, since you are opposed to Catholic schools, this is just a smokescreen. As wezil confirmed with his gloating. But then, I said that in the beginning, didn't I?

[Ben Kenobi]

I think you'll see you are mistaken. It's also likely a court will apply rationality and strike down the provision from the BNA enforcing taxpayer funded bigotry and priestly sodomy.

Which is the real issue, and this is just a smokescreen. It's never been about the clubs, and everything to do with eliminating the schools.

Good luck with that, btw. The amending formula exists for a reason. If you're exempting yourself from the provisions of the constitution, then you are exempting everyone from abiding to it.

[Ben Kenobi]

PS: Why does God care about buttsex?

It's probably only in the bible to stop his clergymen from buggering eachother all day instead of recruiting for the cult.

Why? Because sexual activity is to be confined in marriage, which revolves around the union of a man and a woman. Anything that deviates from this, is sinful. You can sum all of Catholic ethics wrt to human sexuality in just this one principle. If it's not a man and a woman in marriage, then it's wrong.

I'd go so far to say it's because there are men and women in the first place. It's what we were made for.

[rah]

Yes or no rah? Answer the damn question.

I SAID NO, please read. (post 177)

When they define bullying as 'expressing the opinion that homosexuality is sinful', yes, I do.

That's not their definition. And you should know better since I'm sure you were bullied when you were growing up. Being deaf wasn't your fault as much as them being gay isn't their's.
You were bullied because you were different then others.

If the club is defining opposition to homosexuality as bullying, then yes, it's promoting sodomy. If the club is teaching that homosexuality isn't sinful, then yes, it's promoting sodomy.

Not the definition, see answer above.

I can always tell when I'm right. People resort to ad-hominem cheap shots rather than answering questions.

When every answer you give is that the clubs are promoting sodomy, then it's not a cheap shot, but the truth.

Do the clubs teach that homosexuality is not sinful?

AGAIN, the clubs are to get people not to be bullied not to promote being gay.
If they're virgins they are not sinful yet.

You yourself (when defending your wacko religious beliefs) say that they're not being discriminated against because they can still marry women. Well, some of these people may never commit sodomy and marry women. YOU NEVER KNOW. They may never sin. (in your eyes) So what's the problem. As soon as you hear the word GAY, you assume that everyone is jumping up and down and committing sodomy. That is not the case. Especially at that age. If they haven't sinned yet, you should be protecting the children. If they've sinned and confessed, you should be protecting the children. But like a lot of catholics you don't see to give a crap about the children based on your posts in this thread.

[Asher]

Does the club affirm that homosexuality and engaging in homosexuality is not sinful?

Because rah is doing everything he can to avoid answering the question. Same with you. See, when people avoid questions, I can always tell that they would rather bullshit me and call me names if it means not having to answer the question.

Yawn. Answer the question Asher.

I thought I did.

What exactly is your question? Perhaps the reason no one is answering it is you haven't figured out how to type it out.

Your question seemed to be something like "does GSA teach or encourage sodomy". Everyone is laughing at you and saying no, and you are asking them to answer the question.

[Asher]

Why? Because sexual activity is to be confined in marriage, which revolves around the union of a man and a woman. Anything that deviates from this, is sinful.

Fact: man has penis, woman has butt. Buttsex is possible within marriage. Why does God hate married couples?

Bonus fact: Woman has strap-on, man has butt. Also possible in marriage.

[Ben Kenobi]

That's not their definition. And you should know better since I'm sure you were bullied when you were growing up. Being deaf wasn't your fault as much as them being gay isn't their's. You were bullied because you were different then others.

Is there a gay gene? Then no, their decision to be homosexual isn't the same as me being deaf.

AGAIN, the clubs are to get people not to be bullied not to promote being gay.

Then why are they defining someone as bullying gay people if one expresses an opinion in opposition to homosexuality? People can disagree with me without being bullies.

If they're virgins they are not sinful yet.

But if they are teaching that homosexuality is an intrinsic part of you and you cannot overcome it without losing yourself, then they aren't in accordance with what the Church teaches.

You yourself (when defending your wacko religious beliefs) say that they're not being discriminated against because they can still marry women.

Actually, what I argue is that discrimination is part of what marriage is. We discriminate against people who want to marry their children, people who want to marry more than one woman, and we discriminate against men who want to marry another man. Marriage sans discrimination is meaningless.

What we don't do is discriminate against homosexuals. There is nothing barring someone with homosexual inclinations from marrying a woman, nor is there a law providing for two straight men to get married to each other. Ergo, while the law does prevent men from marrying each other, it does not discriminate against homosexuality.

Well, some of these people may never commit sodomy and marry women. YOU NEVER KNOW. They may never sin. (in your eyes) So what's the problem.

My problem is (that if they teach what you said in the thread), that they will equate who they are with what they do, and that they can never truly be happy as a gay person unless they choose to act on their inclinations. Labelling people who disagree with homosexuality as 'bullies', is completely the wrong tack to take, and forcing a Catholic school to compromise their teachings in order to try to shut them down is going from granting rights to people, to taking them away from people that you don't like.

As soon as you hear the word GAY, you assume that everyone is jumping up and down and committing sodomy.

The purpose of the club is to affirm homosexuality. End stop. That puts it in conflict with what the Church teaches.

If they haven't sinned yet, you should be protecting the children.

We disagree on how to protect them. I think that a big part of protecting children is to avoid situations where problems can arise. Seriously, 80 percent of the job of staying out of trouble is not to go where the trouble is happening. Seeking out trouble is like playing with fire, and that's how I see these clubs.

If they've sinned and confessed, you should be protecting the children.

If they are advocating drawing children into sin, then they aren't protecting them. Why do we not have smoking clubs but we do have this one?

But like a lot of catholics you don't see to give a crap about the children based on your posts in this thread.

Well duh, because I'm the only one willing to post the health consequences associated with homosexuality. Clearly by not celebrating it, I hate children.

[Ben Kenobi]

Your question seemed to be something like "does GSA teach or encourage sodomy". Everyone is laughing at you and saying no, and you are asking them to answer the question.

Do they teach that homosexuality is not sinful. You and rah both keep dodging this question. Obvs that's the pertinent question, given Catholic teachings on the matter but it's yet to receive an answer.

[Ben Kenobi]

Fact: man has penis, woman has butt. Buttsex is possible within marriage. Why does God hate married couples?

What's the purposes of sex? Answer that, you'll have your answer. Sex is for both pleasure and for making babies. Sex without one or the other is wrong, because that's what sex was created for, making people happy and making babies.

Bonus fact: Woman has strap-on, man has butt. Also possible in marriage.

And also is sinful...there's lots of stuff you can do in marriage that is sinful.

[Asher]

Is there a gay gene? Then no, their decision to be homosexual isn't the same as me being deaf.

The answer is probably yes. Read up on modern medicine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology...al_orientation

[Asher]

Do they teach that homosexuality is not sinful. You and rah both keep dodging this question. Obvs that's the pertinent question, given Catholic teachings on the matter but it's yet to receive an answer.

The reason no one directly answers your question is because it's mind-numbingly stupid. I cannot speak for every GSA that ever existed.

They may or may not teach that homosexuality is not sinful. I don't know or care what your little storybook says. Freedom of speech, *******.

Does every Catholic student club teach that masturbation is sinful? Answer the question!

[Asher]

What's the purposes of sex?

99.9% of the time, it's enjoyment.

Answer that, you'll have your answer. Sex is for both pleasure and for making babies. Sex without one or the other is wrong, because that's what sex was created for, making people happy and making babies.

sex was created?

And also is sinful...there's lots of stuff you can do in marriage that is sinful.

Which is why your comment was ****ing retarded. You avoided the question while accusing others of avoiding questions. Or maybe you can't ****ing read.

[Asher]

Then why are they defining someone as bullying gay people if one expresses an opinion in opposition to homosexuality? People can disagree with me without being bullies.

The same reason it's bullying to say deaf people are God's mistakes, deaf people are invalids, or deaf people live in sin. Such positions influence how peers will interface with deaf people, and not for the better.

Expressing an opinion is all, right?

If this is about expressing an opinion, let's loop back to the point of this thread. The Catholics want to suppress the opinion of those who wish to help gay teens. It's their way or the high way.

Stop trying to pass off tyranny as freedom of religion.

[gribbler]

Sodomy must have been created because it exists, and obviously wasn't created for making babies, so what's wrong with engaging in sodomy for pleasure? I think Ben has only proven that God thinks that if you don't want babies, you must not do it in the vagina.

[Ben Kenobi]

The answer is probably yes. Read up on modern medicine.

So, it hasn't been proven. Thanks for playing.

Second question, if it were proven to be the case, would you be able to tell those who were gay upon inspection?

See, that's the difference. Nobody knows you are gay unless you tell people. You want to live my life in my shoes - try it sometime.

[Asher]

God created in vitro fertilization so gay couples could make babies while committing sodomy.

[Ben Kenobi]

I cannot speak for every GSA that ever existed.

They may or may not teach that homosexuality is not sinful.

That's the closest I'm going to get to an actual answer. Thanks Asher for admitting it.

I don't know or care what your little storybook says. Freedom of speech, *******.

And that works both ways, Asher. The Catholic schools have the right to teach what the Catholic Church teaches. Undermining it by forcing them to hold events celebrating homosexuality is no different then forcing them to host gay marriages.

Does every Catholic student club teach that masturbation is sinful? Answer the question!

If they want to remain a Catholic student club, yes they do.

See, I answer questions, you do not.

[Asher]

So, it hasn't been proven. Thanks for playing.

Oh, the Catholic is demanding proof?

Scientific evidence points to biological factors playing a significant role in the development of human sexuality.

Second question, if it were proven to be the case, would you be able to tell those who were gay upon inspection?

Frequently, yes. Brain scans show biological differences between gay people and straight people.

See, that's the difference. Nobody knows you are gay unless you tell people.

You've never seen someone on the street and knew they were gay? Really?

I've amazingly accurate gaydar -- not just because of flamboyance, but it's subtle things like facial structures and even eyelashes. Gayface is a real thing.

You want to live my life in my shoes - try it sometime.

Ditto for gay people. *******.

So you can't hear very well. Boohoo. You can't think nor read either. You can't ****. You can't do anything.

That's how God made you. Don't be so ****ing bitter.

[Asher]

T
And that works both ways, Asher. The Catholic schools have the right to teach what the Catholic Church teaches.

Sure, and they still can and do teach what is considered sinful, last I checked. Which part of the legislation says they can't?

You just ****ed yourself, Ben. This bill is to guarantee students can created Gay-Straight Alliances in any school. But you just said freedom of speech works both ways. So you do support the creation of GSAs in Catholic schools?

See, I answer questions, you do not.

You just thanked me for answering your stupid ****ing question. Do you not remember 10 seconds ago?