Canada declares war on Catholicism

[molly bloom]

I'm saying they did plenty to shape native culture, yes.

So native culture isn't Canadian culture. It seemed fairly Canadian when I was travelling through British Columbia. Or are you saying that you can't be Haida or Cree and Canadian ?

I ask, is he the only significant Jewish author that is Canadian?

What does 'significant' mean ? He's Jewish and Canadian. He's entertaining and witty. That's good enough for me.

If he weren't Jewish nobody would care about him.

Unbelievable. You've tested on this on the international public for Canadian satirists, have you ? 'X amount of people preferred Robertson Davies to Mordecai Richler because Davies wasn't a Jew' .

You're so unintentionally funny.

I would question whether he's well known as a Canadian author abroad.

I'm sure some people in Lesotho may not have heard of him.

Nobody has trouble distinguishing Haida artists from Canadian artists.

I thought Bill Reid was both.

Haida culture has particular styles of art that are unique to the Haida that you don't see anywhere else.

And ? It doesn't mean it isn't Canadian too.

I don't really see why Haida art has SFA to do with Canada

Because the Haida aren't Angolan, perhaps.

[molly bloom]

Hey, I love how you blissfully ignored the article. I'll post it again, since you're trying to furiously bury it.

Muslims do support honor killings under sharia law. End stop.

Some Muslims= Islam ! Un frickin real.


You are too stupid for words.

[Ben Kenobi]

It would've still been discovered the women were dead before the car was submerged

The women weren't dead before the car was submerged. The women were drowned. Read up on the 'slam dunk' case.

that their car had damage indicating a collision had occurred; the father's car would've had visible damages to it; the paint transfer marks would've indicated a collision between those two vehicles; the cell phone records would've shown the father to be in the same area as the women around the time of death, etc.

And what happens if the father never reports the accident, quietly gets his Lexus fixed, or parks it in storage?

You continue to try to represent it as a case that only went to trial because of some tip.

They had no evidence to tie it to the father without the report of damages to the Lexus and the tip that it was a honor killing. Sure, the father was in the area, sending his daughters off.

[giblets]

Hey, I love how you blissfully ignored the article. I'll post it again, since you're trying to furiously bury it.

Muslims do support honor killings under sharia law. End stop.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...dent-backs-ho/

Some Muslims? Yes. ALL Muslims? No.

Tahira Shaid Khan, a professor of women’s issues at Aga Khan University, notes that there is nothing in the Qur'an that permits or sanctions honor killings. The first and most basic right in the Qur'an that every Muslim is expected to follow is, in fact, the right to life. As written in the Qur'an,

For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. Our messengers came unto them of old with clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty), but afterwards lo! many of them became prodigals in the earth. (5:32) .

Khan instead blames it on attitudes (across different classes, ethnic and religious groups) that view women as property with no rights of their own as the motivation for honor killings. Khan also argues that this view results in violence against women and their being turned “into a commodity which can be exchanged, bought and sold.”

A survey by author, Ellen Sheeley revealed that 20% of Jordanites sampled, believe that Islam condones and even supports murder in the name of family honor. Others note how religious meaning attached to terms such as virginity and bride-price help to reinforce social traditions and the control of a woman's body and their sexuality.

According to 2000 article, in Jordan the official religious authorities argued that, while adultery should be punished by the proper authorities, in some cases by stoning to death for both men and women, unauthorized honor killings can be traced to pre-Islamic tribal traditions and are not part of the religion. However, the Islamist party argued that honor killings are one part of the Islamic code. The Quran verse An-Nisa, 34 has been interpreted as supporting wife-beating (See Islam and domestic violence) which has been argued to reduce resistance to honor killings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing#Religion

[Ben Kenobi]

So native culture isn't Canadian culture.

Not at all. It's older and was there long before anything 'Canadian'. I have a narrower definition of Canadian culture, I don't think it's right to call anything Canadian, unless it was created after confederation. Prior to that you have British culture in Canada, and French culture in Quebec. Some disagree with me. That's fine. I think a culture should have a common language and a common heritage that it's members can all draw upon. The Haida have that language and culture, and that is Haida.

It seemed fairly Canadian when I was travelling through British Columbia. Or are you saying that you can't be Haida or Cree and Canadian ?

Not at all. I'm saying that one can have a distinctive culture that isn't necessarily Canadian. Anyone born in Canada is Canadian. Many Haida feel that they are not 'Canadian', and believe they would be happier on their own. If they want to leave, they should be allowed to go. That's what self-determination is all about.

He's Jewish and Canadian. He's entertaining and witty. That's good enough for me.

Uh, as you cited earlier. 'Internationally recognized?'

You've tested on this on the international public for Canadian satirists, have you ? 'X amount of people preferred Robertson Davies to Mordecai Richler because Davies wasn't a Jew' .

I've sat through enough classes on 'Canadian culture'. Not a single English Canadian represented unless they were a Jew, a woman, or some other nationality other than British. Yes, it's the hard truth that you have to be one of the three (or French Canadian), if you want to be notable in academia.

I thought Bill Reid was both.

If someone were to show you art that was specifically Haida, you could pick it out. That's my point. Everyone knows Bill Reid's stuff. The art is very distinctive, apart from English Canadian art, is really not a question. Are they really drawing on the same culture? I would argue no. I don't see it as contemptuous to argue that Haida art is Haida art, so much as it is a recognition that the cultures are different, and that Haida art shouldn't be subsumed.

It doesn't mean it isn't Canadian too.

They aren't drawing on the same things. I don't think it's fair to the Haida to lump them in with the rest rather than acknowledging them for their accomplishments.

[Ben Kenobi]

Some Muslims? Yes. ALL Muslims? No.

So my point is well taken. Thank you. Or are we going to get into the argument that no true follower of Islam believes in honor killings?

[giblets]

So my point is well taken. Thank you. Or are we going to get into the argument that no true follower of Islam believes in honor killings?

That would be a very strange argument. Of course they really are followers of the religion, but its a cultural practice that is not intrinsic to the religion and as far as I can tell a majority of Muslims do not consider it acceptable. And generally I would expect the more liberal-minded Muslims to be more likely to migrate to a country run by infidels . If you're trying to prove that honor killings are widely practiced by Muslim-Canadians then I think you need something better than some nutjobs in Chechnya.

[Ben Kenobi]

its a cultural practice that is not intrinsic to the religion

Given that the more faithful practicioners defend the practice, I would argue the opposite. It is intrisic, but just as with some things in Christianity, the less devoted choose not to follow it.

If you're trying to prove that honor killings are widely practiced by Muslim-Canadians then I think you need something better than some nutjobs in Chechnya.

The Chechens are on the border with the west, same as with the Muslims in Canada, they are engaged in the struggle. Let me ask you something - do you think the Christians in the Crusader states were more or less likely to be devout?

[giblets]

Given that the more faithful practicioners defend the practice, I would argue the opposite. It is intrisic, but just as with some things in Christianity, the less devoted choose not to follow it.



The Chechens are on the border with the west, same as with the Muslims in Canada, they are engaged in the struggle. Let me ask you something - do you think the Christians in the Crusader states were more or less likely to be devout?

The Christians went on Crusades for religions motivations, not to get a better quality of life which is probably what most immigrants to Canada are looking for. As for Christians who already lived there when the Crusades started, I have no reason to think they were any different from Christians elsewhere. And you are really making up crap here, I think. Some of the most devoted followers of the religion are suicide bombers, that doesn't make terrorism intrinsic to the religion.

[Ben Kenobi]

The Christians went on Crusades for religions motivations, not to get a better quality of life which is probably what most immigrants to Canada are looking for.

And what would you base that statement on?

As for Christians who already lived there when the Crusades started

This is going in my sig. Thank you Gribbler.

Some of the most devoted followers of the religion are suicide bombers, that doesn't make terrorism intrinsic to the religion.

Oh no? Seems pretty clear to me.

[giblets]

Oh no? Seems pretty clear to me.

Yeah, you're a bigot, you've already made that abundantly clear.

[Asher]

The women weren't dead before the car was submerged. The women were drowned. Read up on the 'slam dunk' case.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2012/01/29/shafia-sunday.html

The Crown’s theory was that the women were drowned elsewhere or incapacitated and then put in the car. That was supported by evidence of fresh bruising on the heads of three out of the four women

The car was in first gear when it was pulled from the water with the ignition off. The headlights were also off, the girls weren’t wearing seatbelts and the seats were reclined at an awkward angle.

This, the prosecution told the jury, supported the theory that they were placed in the car which was then pushed into the locks by the family’s SUV. Pieces of the SUV's headlights were found at the scene.

And what happens if the father never reports the accident, quietly gets his Lexus fixed, or parks it in storage?

There's a million other ways to get to the same point. He was sighted checking into the motel in the Lexus. If it's not locatable or shows recent repair work, ding ding...

They had no evidence to tie it to the father without the report of damages to the Lexus and the tip that it was a honor killing. Sure, the father was in the area, sending his daughters off.

Yeah, no evidence at all. Except for cell phone signals placing him near the scene of the crime and he claimed he was nowhere near it. Oh, or the fact that every person in the family that survived gave several wildly different accounts each. There was the fact that the car had damage on it that it did not have when it was purchased just days earlier. Or the fact that the seats were awkwardly reclined, such that it's unreasonable to expect it to be driven as such. Or the fact that the car was actually turned off when it entered the water. Or the very public motive of having publicly rebellious daughters whose abusive father so frightened them that they've recently stayed at shelters. Or the fact that they've previously reported to authorities threats against them made by their father. The father made Google searches for things like “Where to commit a murder” “Can a prisoner have control over his real estate", which clearly doesn't presume his innocence. Oh, and the testimony of the hotel manager which directly contradicted their many stories. I suppose the fact that pieces of his SUV's headlights were found in the area also is not evidence.

There was clearly no suspicious pieces of evidence here except for a tip of an honour killing.