Console Wars IV

[Asher]

Originally posted by El_Cid
hmm I think you misunderstand me. I'm not having an MS vs Open battle with you here Asher.

DirectX is indeed the most complete package, what i'm saying is you don't only need DirectX for game development, there are other choices and that is a good thing rather than a bad thing.

Name one other SDK that does what DirectX does. If you can do that, name one SDK that does what DirectX does as well as DirectX does.

Unfortunately MS and various proprietary technologies(such as consoles) seem to be all about restricting or at the very least controlling the choice of tool you might like to use. And that's not my thing baby nor many other peoples, as amongst other things, it can hinder the creative process.

Unfortunately you are talking out of your ass. MS provides SDK and toolkits for game development that you are not forced to use on the PC. As luck would have it, everyone uses it because it is by far the best thing out there and nothing else compares to it. What MS has done -- and this is what I think you are utterly clueless about -- is abstract away so much game plumbing and "boiler plate" code and design that it lets game developers focus more on the game than on the overhead of getting that game running. If anything, MS' contribution to gaming has been to streamline and accelerate the game development process.

Read some developer interviews on developing for the Xbox (1) vs PS2 or Gamecube, or developing for the Xbox 360 vs the PS3/Wii. MS' toolkit is simply unparalleled in the game development front, which is precisely why MS has been able to crack this market -- developers enjoy developing on the 360 and Xbox platforms.

On the PC developers need to take time away from developing their game to troubleshoot and implement a million implementations for different hardware sets. On the 360 they've got the best IDE with the best SDK with the best support and libraries out there, not to mention the best debugging toolkit and performance profiling applications. All of this stuff is way more difficult on competing consoles and on the PC.

For all of the **** you're spewing on here, you're not taking note of the most basic: what it comes down to is how easy it is for a platform to develop for. It's easier to develop for the 360 than any other platform on the face of the planet (even the Wii -- it's not easy to develop for, it's just cheap since the audience doesn't care if it looks and plays like ass). That means a lot, and it's precisely why games are developed on the 360 then subsequently ported to the PC or other consoles...

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Asher
Re: Boomblox, it's a rare example of a Wii game where genuine thought has gone into it. I wouldn't be upset if more Wii games were like that, but for every Boomblox there's 150 "Iron Chef America COOKOFF" and "CARNIVAL GAME FUNBOX OF JOY".

Not enough Jews.

[El_Cid]

Originally posted by Asher

Name one other SDK that does what DirectX does. If you can do that, name one SDK that does what DirectX does as well as DirectX does.
........[missing the point pro MS rant] etc..........

Originally posted by child of Thor
hmm I think you misunderstand me.

Originally posted by child of Thor
DirectX is indeed the most complete package....

Originally posted by child of Thor
When I'm carving a wooden bowl I don't use just one chisel type...

Originally posted by child of Thor
Unfortunately MS and various proprietary technologies(such as consoles) seem to be all about restricting or at the very least controlling the choice of tool you might like to use.....

And remarks form Devs using XBLA etc as in the post above show I am at least warm in my misinformed opinion.

[DrSpike]

Coming out?

[Nostromo]

Rage Will Look Worse on 360 Due to Compression

id's post-apocalyptic open-world shooter Rage (PC, PS3, 360, Mac) will look worse on Xbox 360 due to the compression needed to fit the game's assets on two DVDs, programmer John Carmack revealed at tonight's QuakeCon keynote.

According to Carmack, the royalty fees to include a third disc in the Xbox 360 version would be so high that it simply isn't a feasible solution, with the programmer hoping for Microsoft to make a concession. He stressed that the issue is merely a storage problem and has nothing to do with the power of the Xbox 360 hardware, while adding that the PlayStation 3's Blu-ray format is Sony's one leg up on the competition.

Carmack also noted his belief that neither Doom 4 or Rage will be digitally distributed online, as id isn't looking into that sort of distribution for its major titles at this point.

During last year's QuakeCon talk, Carmack stated that the PlayStation 3 edition of Rage would ship on a single Blu-ray disc, with the PC and Mac versions likely to arrive in both Blu-ray and DVD form.

Its basically just a royalty issue. Microsoft charges per disc and not per game.

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/53976

For the game trailer:

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/37832.html?type=wmv

[snoopy369]

Wow, a PC game in bluray? That's pretty interesting...

I do wish it would come in digital download format, of course; it's quite annoying that any game does not come in this format at this point. It's probably the single most effective counter to piracy (making the game available in a no-cd-required format)...

[El_Cid]

Originally posted by DrSpike
Coming out?

No just attempting to show Asher he can't persuade me with his normal half right/half not getting it posts.

or were you asking for a date! I have far too much grim fandango to work out for that!

Well as long as PC games still come on DVD the Blu-ray version is fine, I really don't want to buy more hardware each year - it's been too silly for too long already.

And ref pure digital downloads, unless you have an intrusive system like steams, it seems a hard drive failure is not good for D2D, and if steam ever goes bust all your games go with it also. So I'm an old fashioned guy for this in that I quite like a CD/DVD with my game on it, even if it's just a backup and doesn't need to be used day to day.

Do any of the systems allow that? download over the net and burn onto a disk? I would suspect that you can't?

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by El_Cid


No just attempting to show Asher he can't persuade me with his normal half right/half not getting it posts.

or were you asking for a date! I have far too much grim fandango to work out for that!

You know what I meant.

[Asher]

Originally posted by El_Cid










And remarks form Devs using XBLA etc as in the post above show I am at least warm in my misinformed opinion.

What the **** is the point of this post? Please make a real post.

[El_Cid]

Originally posted by Asher


What the **** is the point of this post? Please make a real post.

exactly! the problem is you don't get it Asher and seem incapable of ever doing so(is it your MS programming I wonder? ).
On the other hand I do actually get where you are coming from, I just disagree with your view, mostly.

And this is really the root of the issue: I understand your view but you can never understand mine. So in effect, I cannot lose

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Asher
That means a lot, and it's precisely why games are developed on the 360 then subsequently ported to the PC or other consoles...

Hmmm. Help me here. For the PC the main issue you mentioned was the need to deal with multiple configurations. That would seem to be just as much a problem for a port to the PC as for something developed on the PC. Im also under the impression that there are still games (Far Cry2 Orange Box, etc - others ) that are developed on the PC and then ported to the 360 (and sometimes other consoles). I was under the impression it had much to do with which platform they decided to make the game opitimal for, for reasons of business strategy.

[Asher]

Originally posted by El_Cid


exactly! the problem is you don't get it Asher and seem incapable of ever doing so(is it your MS programming I wonder? ).
On the other hand I do actually get where you are coming from, I just disagree with your view, mostly.

And this is really the root of the issue: I understand your view but you can never understand mine. So in effect, I cannot lose

I can understand your view, I don't understand how repeating a previously made post of yours constitutes furthering the debate. It doesn't.

The problem here is you're not discussing this, you're spamming and just making random, wild posts with no cohesive argument. When asked to make such an argument you make posts like this.

[Asher]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


Hmmm. Help me here. For the PC the main issue you mentioned was the need to deal with multiple configurations. That would seem to be just as much a problem for a port to the PC as for something developed on the PC. Im also under the impression that there are still games (Far Cry2 Orange Box, etc - others ) that are developed on the PC and then ported to the 360 (and sometimes other consoles). I was under the impression it had much to do with which platform they decided to make the game opitimal for, for reasons of business strategy.

It has to do with their roots especially -- I was quite obviously speaking in general terms. You either knew this and are being a douche about it, or you didn't know it and your stupidity is showing.

In any case, the trend is to develop for consoles then port to PC. Yes, there are exceptions, no, there's no argument to be made about the exceptions.

[Nikolai]

You know Asher, when lotm is as humble in his post as he were there, you could try to be a little more gentle.

[Zanarkand]

Asher, is there a reason why you're being so rude? Lord of the mark asked an honest question, and you answered with insults. That's really unnecessary. Try to be a bit more nice.