Console Wars IV

[Nikolai]

Originally posted by rah
Hmm have to get the last word in I see. Ok, I guess then I'll have to allow asher one last shot too. I would hope he will be civil about it. And short.

But then I want to see nothing about it for a bit.

Sorry, couldn't resist.
I'll say no more on the matter of course. If you want, I can delete it?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Solver


Not at all. I assume you're referring to Rage? It's been demoed on a Mac running in GL. Carmack has confirmed that they're building the PC and Mac versions of their new game (or games?) on OpenGL and are only going DX on the Xbox.

It's OpenGL on Mac obviously because DirectX doesn't exist on Mac.

It uses DirectX on Windows, and is primarily being developed on Windows.

Do you have a link on them saying they're not using DirectX on the PC? I've found many links saying they're not using DirectX 10 on Windows, but that's because they're using DirectX 9.

[Solver]

It's OpenGL on Mac obviously because DirectX doesn't exist on Mac.

Obviously.

It uses DirectX on Windows, and is primarily being developed on Windows.

Do you have a link on them saying they're not using DirectX on the PC? I've found many links saying they're not using DirectX 10 on Windows, but that's because they're using DirectX 9.

Yeah, it's not using DX10 but they're apparently using GL. Link: http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/7/...t-in-id-Tech-5 At least that is about Rage specifically, but I guess this would also be true for Doom4 and other titles on the same engine.

[Asher]

Read your link clearly -- it says they're not using DirectX10 on Windows, but this is because they are using DirectX 9...

Carmack has also publicly said that DirectX 9/10 is better than OpenGL, but the only reason they use it at all is due to Mac. They are not using DirectX 10 yet because the userbase isn't there yet, but he thinks DirectX 10 is better than 9.

[Solver]

Where does it say that? I see his praise for DX10 but he doesn't say the engine is in DX on the PC. He just says they can move it to DX10 later. "But it's a OpenGL title on the PC"

[Asher]

Originally posted by Solver
Where does it say that? I see his praise for DX10 but he doesn't say the engine is in DX on the PC. He just says they can move it to DX10 later. "But it's a OpenGL title on the PC"

Can't be bothered to waste time googling it. Feel free.

It's confusing because both Carmack and the journalists keep talking about "DirectX 9" and "DirectX 10" in terms of featureset and not the actual API, which is what they are. So there's conflicting **** everywhere, a googling nightmare.

[asleepathewheel]

Rumor is that the 360 arcade is going to hit 199 in sept.

http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2008/08/01/mole-attack-360-price-cuts-on-all-hardware-in-september

* Arcade (no hard drive) to $199
* Pro (60GB) to $299
* Elite (120GB) to $399


If so, then

That elite price is still way too high, though.

[El_Cid]

@ Asher+Solver,
Yes it is a bit confusing. Even this article on gamasutra is kind of a mish-mash of conflicting messages:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3751/quelling_the_rage_carmack_and_.php

It sounds like from a business point of view Mr.Carmack is happy to join with EA, but at the same time that part of him that has been this voice against 'the big man' in PC gaming for so long is finding it difficult to adjust? something like that.

I suspect the GL/DX thing is having the same issue?

For me personally and my team(as they do the nuts+bolts) we prefer C++ and Dx9 for our upcoming project, with Open AL and .ogg for music/sound. BUT there is serious debate about GL.
And maybe using Python for embedded elements within the C++ code(which is I believe what Civ4 did.).

The advantage for us going with GL over Dx9 is that it will make the Mac/Linux ports much easier to manage. So it is a consideration.

[Felch]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel
* Arcade (no hard drive) to $199
* Pro (60GB) to $299
* Elite (120GB) to $399


If so, then

That elite price is still way too high, though.

What does the Elite come with besides a bigger hard drive?

And for the record, the Xbox hard drive prices are absolutely bananas. 60GB for $100?

[Felch]

120 GB 2.5 inch hard drive for $65. There's a link, just so you know I'm not talking out of my ass on that topic. Several of the reviews are from people who bought it to swap into their 360s.

I'm not even getting into the wi-fi adapter price. That's just ridiculous.

[DrSpike]

Yeah, the Wi-fi and Hard Drive prices are stupid, and it's even worse in the UK.

But on the hard drive front you only really need 20GB unless you download a lot of films etc. But the price for the Pro is pretty good anyway so I'm not that bothered by the 60GB entry level.

[DrSpike]

Also, go do your gladiator orders.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Asher

If we hadn't had this discussion with LOTM dozens of times before I'd consider being nicer.

I very much doubt it was an honest question. If it was, LOTM's more hopeless than I'd ever imagined.

The man plays games only once they reach their 10th anniversary, then he pretends like he keeps up on the latest trends of the gaming industry and then wastes everyone's time by trying to debate them.

We had discussions about many things, but about the trend of which platform as between the 360 and Windows games are developed for and ported from, and in what numbers, across what genres, if we've ever had that, no, I dont remember it. At all.

Ive lately been playing games released in the period from 2001 to 2004. Deus Ex, Age of Sail PB, RCT3. Im sorry, I have a backlog, and broad interests. I do have an avocational interest in the game industry as such. Where actually having played a recent game is relevant to the discussion, I try to be careful to avoid comment. However in many instances it is not. And yes, Im not a programmer or comp sci grad, and try to frame my questions on that, as well, questions.

I do know a reasonable amount about economics, finance, and business strategy. I find even in those areas there are some people here who like to use bluster and insulting language to shut down discussion, just as much as in other areas, which leads me to the conclusion that the source of the bluster and insult has nothing much to do with my lack of knowledge in any particular area.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Asher
I don't think that's the case, and if it is the case maybe he should give up because he's been at it for years and is still utterly clueless about the subject.

But EVERYONE who disagrees with you, whether its about the future of PC gaming, or the place of the Wii, or the PS3 vs the 360, is utterly clueless - most of the folks on this site are clueless about Civ4 as you stated in an earlier post, most analysts and journalists are clueless, most participants at gaming sites other than beyond3d are clueless, and apparently even some of them are clueless too, since they dont all seem to agree with your positions on the 360.

Clueless I may be, but then Im in good company.

[Asher]

Good company is one way to put it...