General Announcement from the new Owners / New Forum Ruleset

[Ben Kenobi]

As far as I'm concerned, this gives you the liberty to say whatever you please up to the point where you begin to directly threaten, insult, or demean specific groups of people. Opinions are fine; derogatory comments are not.

So I can't say, for example, "Hitler didn't go far enough, he failed to gas all the Jews".

But I can say homosexuality is sinful?

[Asher]

You're free to discuss (and cite and post excerpts from) the Bible as much as you want, but if you repeatedly espouse hateful beliefs, action will be taken against you.

As far as I'm concerned, this gives you the liberty to say whatever you please up to the point where you begin to directly threaten, insult, or demean specific groups of people. Opinions are fine; derogatory comments are not.

So, Lori...let's say for example a poster makes negative comments about the actions and intentions of an entire minority group. Would that be permitted?

[Ben Kenobi]

I knew you'd read that comment and be upset.

I don't like speech codes, especially not on websites where I choose to spend my leisure time. I dealt with enough of them when I was at university, and I'm really disappointed to see the same crap here.

Fact is, what you spout is exactly that -- hate speech. You promote intolerance and express contempt about many minority groups.

Which ones? Gays and atheists?

Hate speech is the label many would use, including our government. I'm still toying with the idea of making a HRC complaint against some of your postings now that you're in BC and back under Canadian jurisdiction. It'd be hilarious.

Go right ahead.

I stand by everything I've said.

[Asher]

So I can't say, for example, "Hitler didn't go far enough, he failed to gas all the Jews".

But I can say homosexuality is sinful?

Saying you believe it to be sinful is fine, I'd think.

But when you make comments like homosexuals are not capable of monogamy, that is not fine.

You're a bigot and need to watch what you say, provided our new mods care to respect these rules against bullies like you.

[Asher]

Go right ahead.

I stand by everything I've said.

Yes, Ben, and that is precisely why we know you to hold bigoted beliefs..truthfully.

[Lorizael]

So I can't say, for example, "Hitler didn't go far enough, he failed to gas all the Jews".

If this is said as a joke, I'd have no problem with it. If it were clear that you sincerely believed this, action would be taken against you.

But I can say homosexuality is sinful?

This is your opinion based on your interpretation of the Bible, and I have no problem with you expressing it.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ok, thanks Lori.

I appreciate you being clear with me.

I have no problem abiding by those rules.

[Lorizael]

So, Lori...let's say for example a poster makes negative comments about the actions and intentions of an entire minority group. Would that be permitted?

Statements made in the spirit of discussion are almost always going to be allowed if I'm moderating. I consider hateful statements to be those that express nothing but hatred. If Ben Kenobi starts a thread with the OP, "OMFG I WAS ACCOSTED BY THREE GAYS IN THE SUPERMARKET AND I HATE THEM AND THEY'RE STUPID AND I WANT TO KILL THEM" then that's crossing a line, because there's no discussion. As long as Ben is merely attempting to have a discussion, I will not moderate his posts.

Asher, Ben: Don't start an argument over your personal issues with each other in this thread. This is supposed to be an on topic discussion regarding the forum's new rules. If you want to discuss each other, take it to the OT.

[Ben Kenobi]

Saying you believe it to be sinful is fine, I'd think.

But when you make comments like homosexuals are not capable of monogamy, that is not fine.

We have different ideas about what constitutes monogamy.

You're a bigot and need to watch what you say, provided our new mods care to respect these rules against bullies like you.

Considering you've already threatened to sue me in this thread, I hardly think I'm the one being a bully.

As I've said before, feel free to take me to the HRC. I'll send you my address so you can be sure to get the summons correctly served.

[Asher]

Statements made in the spirit of discussion are almost always going to be allowed if I'm moderating. I consider hateful statements to be those that express nothing but hatred. If Ben Kenobi starts a thread with the OP, "OMFG I WAS ACCOSTED BY THREE GAYS IN THE SUPERMARKET AND I HATE THEM AND THEY'RE STUPID AND I WANT TO KILL THEM" then that's crossing a line, because there's no discussion. As long as Ben is merely attempting to have a discussion, I will not moderate his posts.

So, to be clear, you are permitting people to make posts such as saying gays are not capable of monogamy and black people are not trustworthy, and things of that nature?

That's quite a precedent.

Any one of those statements can be prosecuted as hate speech in Canada.

[Asher]

Considering you've already threatened to sue me in this thread, I hardly think I'm the one being a bully.

I did no such thing.

I merely speculated on making a complaint with the HRC, such that you feel compelled to respect the laws of the land. Nothing more.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Ben? Bugger off. This is grown-ups talk.

[Lorizael]

So, to be clear, you are permitting people to make posts such as saying gays are not capable of monogamy and black people are not trustworthy, and things of that nature?

That's quite a precedent.

Any one of those statements can be prosecuted as hate speech in Canada.

As far as I'm concerned, people are allowed to discuss whatever they want. I draw a line at moral condemnation. Statements that are not okay with me would be along the lines of, "Because gay people are not capable of monogamy, they are less than and inferior to other human beings."

Pointing out or discussing differences between groups of people is okay; making absolute moral judgments based on that is not okay. For example, it's quite possible that there are some gays out there that don't believe monogamy to be a good thing and wouldn't necessarily be insulted by the suggestion that they're not capable of it. Absolute moral judgments - gays/blacks/jews are bad people - are not okay.

[Asher]

As far as I'm concerned, people are allowed to discuss whatever they want. I draw a line at moral condemnation. Statements that are not okay with me would be along the lines of, "Because gay people are not capable of monogamy, they are less than and inferior to other human beings."

Lori, you need to read the statements more closely. The "they are less than and inferior" is implicit in the original comment.

Pointing out or discussing differences between groups of people is okay; making absolute moral judgments based on that is not okay. For example, it's quite possible that there are some gays out there that don't believe monogamy to be a good thing and wouldn't necessarily be insulted by the suggestion that they're not capable of it. Absolute moral judgments - gays/blacks/jews are bad people - are not okay.

I am not sure you understand. Saying "some gays are not capable of monogamy" may be borderline okay, but to say "gays are not capable of monogamy" is an absolute moral judgment.

[Ben Kenobi]

black people are not trustworthy

When did I ever say this?

I believe Obama is untrustworthy, but I would have been proud to vote for Keyes. I think he's a good man.