NFL 2013 Season Thread

[Al B. Sure!]

Yep. The Chip Kelly experiment should be done after this year. They barely squeaked through the second weakest division of the NFL and they lost a cold weather home playoff game against the Saints. When you can't win a wildcard in the NFC, that really says it all.

Chip Kelly coached the league's #2 offense and turned a 4-12 team into a 10-6 division winner but losing by 2 points to the Saints in the playoffs... FIRED!




Meanwhile in the real world, he's a contender for AP Coach of the Year and has already won the lesser Maxwell Coach award:





Ben has to be trolling. Even someone with no knowledge of football can't possibly be this wrong.

[Imran Siddiqui]

So SF devoted practice time and designed their defense to prevent Wilson from beating them with his legs... and you claim being mobile is useless?

By your logic, him being a mobile QB IS THE REASON the Seahawks won. If the DEF came into it with the idea of we need to put guys on spy and contain and scheme to stop Wilson running and he still beats them through the air, how the hell is that not a testament to the effectiveness of mobile QB's that they cause the DEF to change their gameplan and make themselves vulnerable in other ways?

That is basically it. A mobile QB requires the opposing team to gameplan for that mobility. A lot of times the defensive plans to contain the QB leads to openings in the passing game, if that QB can exploit them. Steve Young surely could (and did so masterfully - the 49ers would utilize that a lot with planned rollouts to really mess with the defense) and Russell Wilson definitely did so on Sunday.

[Al B. Sure!]

That is basically it. A mobile QB requires the opposing team to gameplan for that mobility. A lot of times the defensive plans to contain the QB leads to openings in the passing game, if that QB can exploit them. Steve Young surely could (and did so masterfully - the 49ers would utilize that a lot with planned rollouts to really mess with the defense) and Russell Wilson definitely did so on Sunday.

In a base offense, only 5 offensive players can advance the ball (RB's, WR's, and TE's). 11 defensive players effectively try to stop 5 guys. With a mobile QB, 6 offensive players can legitimately advance the ball.

This basic math goes a long way to explain why mobile QB's have won 58.9% of their starts since 1970.

And yet here and on other forums, everyone responds with nonsensical comments like Sava's or this gem from another forum: "gotta take into account how many running qbs are simply beating other running qbs in those stats..." (If a mobile QB beats another mobile QB, it's 1-1, idiot!)

I see it a ton on other forums but Ben and Sava demonstrate it here: this almost religious conviction that mobile QB's are somehow inferior and no weight of contrary evidence can dissuade them. Is there something else to this that I don't understand?

If I were to prove that left-handed QB's win more games (and haven't won too many SB's. Young is the only SB winner off the top of my head), would I get the same vitriolic responses?

[Imran Siddiqui]

I see it a ton on other forums but Ben and Sava demonstrate it here: this almost religious conviction that mobile QB's are somehow inferior and no weight of contrary evidence can dissuade them. Is there something else to this that I don't understand?

Yes, that something else is that most mobile QB's have been of a... darker pigmentation (one of the reasons Steve Young is not a mobile QB). That is the only possible explanation I've been able to come up with.

[Al B. Sure!]

Yes, that something else is that most mobile QB's have been of a... darker pigmentation (one of the reasons Steve Young is not a mobile QB). That is the only possible explanation I've been able to come up with.

The thing is, most mobile QB's haven't been! Greg Landy, Bobby Douglass, and Steve Grogan were white.

And you have plenty of white QB's who don't get utilized as mobile QB's but we know are as speedy and agile as RG3: Ryan Tannehill, Jake Locker (4.50 40 who was a hell of a collegiate runner), Christian Ponder (4.63 40 and also a runner), etc.

I don't include them in my mobile set because they aren't used as mobile QB's but they would arguably make better running QB's than the so-so passers they are. The Titans and Vikings need to get realistic that they don't have Andrew Luck on their hands (nor the WR's to support that offense) and let their fast QB's do what they did in college.

[Ben Kenobi]

The two teams in the Super Bowl are the teams that should be there.

Which is why the Eagles ain't there.

[Ben Kenobi]

he's a contender for AP Coach of the Year

Whereas the winner will be the former Eagles coach. I'm not seeing how that's an improvement. Coaching wasn't the problem.

[Ben Kenobi]

A mobile QB requires the opposing team to gameplan for that mobility. A lot of times the defensive plans to contain the QB leads to openings in the passing game, if that QB can exploit them. Steve Young surely could (and did so masterfully - the 49ers would utilize that a lot with planned rollouts to really mess with the defense) and Russell Wilson definitely did so on Sunday.

San Fran lost because they were willing to sacrifice a man and do exactly what albert said they should do. Seattle won because they didn't, and focussed on shutting down the running game of the Niners and forcing Kaep to throw.

That's the real problem with QBs who run, is that most of them aren't great passers. Stopping the run game even if you let the QB rack up yards, will force them into obvious passing downs.

As for my antipathy - it's got everything to do with performance. I'd much rather have a Manning, Rivers, Brees, or a Brady over any other QB out there. These four are also the best QBs out there. Pocket Passers can simply hit another gear which is why a team can win games with a QB who runs, they aren't going to win a superbowl.

As for race, I think it's a shame that many black QBs are told to be RBs first and QBs second. It stifles their growth as a QB and dooms them to the inevitable injuries which then cut their career short and keep them out of the hall of fame. It's almost like they are being fed horse**** by people who want them to fail. Look at Warren Moon. Why are there no Warren Moon's today? Why aren't we seeing a black player QB like Peyton Manning?

[Ben Kenobi]

I don't include them in my mobile set because they aren't used as mobile QB's

Vikings need to get realistic that they don't have Andrew Luck on their hands

Umm, didn't you argue that Luck's used as a mobile QB? Seems the definition can be so broad as to be useless.

[Ben Kenobi]

So when is Chip Kelly getting fired, Ben? After the 2014-15 season?

Given as it's the Eagles, they'll make the playoffs every year and Kelly will rack up a huge number of playoff losses. Then he'll be fired and they'll replace him, and Kelly will go on to win awards working for another team.

[Al B. Sure!]

I'm not seeing how that's an improvement.

The Eagles went 4-12 last year. They went 10-6 this year.

Admittedly, last year's Eagles were a better than 4-12 team. They were above average on both offense and defense but had no capability of generating turnovers. They were 30th in interceptions and 28th in fumble recoveries. Losing McCoy and Desean Jackson mid-way through the year didn't help them either. Nor did losing Vick. While Ben may think Vick was the reason the Eagles were 4-12 last year, Nick Foles was 1-5 in his starts in 2012.

So yeah, Chip Kelly turned what was probably more like a 7-9 team when healthy into a 10-6 team while only turning a slightly above average offense into the league's second best and making a superstar out of Nick Foles.

Damn Chip Kelly really sucks

[Ben Kenobi]

The Colts and the Patriots also beat them this season, so the Chargers weren't the only ones to challenge them. Ergo Broncos Vs Patriots was legitimately the real AFC championship.

True, but the Patriots didn't come as close as the Chargers did in the Divisionals.

[Ben Kenobi]

Admittedly, last year's Eagles were a better than 4-12 team. They were above average on both offense and defense but had no capability of generating turnovers. They were 30th in interceptions and 28th in fumble recoveries. Losing McCoy and Desean Jackson mid-way through the year didn't help them either. Nor did losing Vick. While Ben may think Vick was the reason the Eagles were 4-12 last year, Nick Foles was 1-5 in his starts in 2012.

Vick was the reason they sucked. As soon as they demoted Vick to backup they were much more successful this year. Had Vick never came with the Eagles, you'd likely not have had a coaching change. Reid was never the problem with the Eagles. The problem was the Eagles were relying on Vick to deliver them to the promised land.

I'd be impressed with Chip if he cut Vick's ass. What is he going to do, mentor Folk? Folk's a better QB now than Vick ever was.

So yeah, Chip Kelly turned what was probably more like a 7-9 team when healthy into a 10-6 team while only turning a slightly above average offense into the league's second best and making a superstar out of Nick Foles.

And dumping Vick. The team did much better without than with him. Had Reid done the same he'd have kept his job.

[Al B. Sure!]

As for race, I think it's a shame that many black QBs are told to be RBs first and QBs second. It stifles their growth as a QB and dooms them to the inevitable injuries which then cut their career short and keep them out of the hall of fame. It's almost like they are being fed horse**** by people who want them to fail. Look at Warren Moon. Why are there no Warren Moon's today? Why aren't we seeing a black player QB like Peyton Manning?

We've had Black pocket passers. They just haven't been as good as the mobile ones. Jason Campbell. Byron Leftwich. JaMarcus Russell. Josh Freeman's not really mobile.

[Al B. Sure!]

Vick was the reason they sucked. As soon as they demoted Vick to backup they were much more successful this year. Had Vick never came with the Eagles, you'd likely not have had a coaching change. Reid was never the problem with the Eagles. The problem was the Eagles were relying on Vick to deliver them to the promised land.

The Eagles would have won 3 Super Bowls by now if they just stuck with Kevin Kolb*!


*Who proved so concussion-prone that he's virtually out of football. Remember our little who is more injury-prone debate? Kolb gave the Cardinals/Bills 14 starts in 3 years. Vick had 29 starts in the same time-frame.