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**Sparrowhawk** · December 9, 2012, 00:46

I'm generally of the belief (and I think many would agree) that a top tier QB can make a mediocre Wide Receiver look much better but how often is it the other way around?

The reason I ask is that I think (thought?

) Philip Rivers is almost a top tier QB who has been terrible this year, and Josh Freeman looked pretty back last year and has looked pretty good this year, and though there are a number of variables on both teams, one of them has to be Vincent Jackson doesn't it? Could it be that a good wide receiver can make a QB look that much better? (and by extension, the loss of that same Wide Receiver make the QB look that much worse?).

Or is it simply that the Chargers have sucked this year while the Bucaneers have not?

**Ben Kenobi** · December 9, 2012, 00:56

Or is it simply that the Chargers have sucked this year while the Bucaneers have not?

O-Line. You're looking at the wrong place. Chargers O-Line is an insult to crap.

**SlowwHand** · December 9, 2012, 02:15

SF QB's were excellent, but it didn't hurt them that they were throwing to Jerry Rice, as an example.

**Al B. Sure!** · December 9, 2012, 02:45

Originally posted by Sparrowhawk View Post

I'm generally of the belief (and I think many would agree) that a top tier QB can make a mediocre Wide Receiver look much better but how often is it the other way around?

The reason I ask is that I think (thought?

) Philip Rivers is almost a top tier QB who has been terrible this year, and Josh Freeman looked pretty back last year and has looked pretty good this year, and though there are a number of variables on both teams, one of them has to be Vincent Jackson doesn't it? Could it be that a good wide receiver can make a QB look that much better? (and by extension, the loss of that same Wide Receiver make the QB look that much worse?).

Or is it simply that the Chargers have sucked this year while the Bucaneers have not?

Philip Rivers looked just fine during VJax's holdout

Remember there's another player that's gone downhill on that San Diego team and his decline matches up well with Rivers': Antonio Gates.

**Ben Kenobi** · December 9, 2012, 03:42

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

Chargers are 27th on pass protection. Tampa is 6th. Like I said, it's all O-Line.

The other neat thing? The Chargers have an awesome Right Tackle. Jeromey Clary is the best RT in the game right now. Clary's having a very, very quiet and amazing season. Everyone else has been just terrible.

**-Jrabbit** · December 9, 2012, 03:48

The fact the TB has a running game and SD does not - both having a first-round RB - would also tend to point to the O-line.

That said, as Sloww noted, having a top WR is a huge help. Marshall has made Cutler look far more competent this year, despite the fact that the Bears' O-line also sucks donkey balls.

**Ben Kenobi** · December 9, 2012, 04:32

The fact the TB has a running game and SD does not - both having a first-round RB - would also tend to point to the O-line.

That has more to do with Ryan Mathews. Ryan Mathews just isn't a very good rusher. The Chargers have about average run blocking, he's getting holes, he's just not doing anything with them.

That said, as Sloww noted, having a top WR is a huge help. Marshall has made Cutler look far more competent this year, despite the fact that the Bears' O-line also sucks donkey balls.

Yeah, the Bears have a worse O-Line than the Chargers. I hope Cutler renegotiates his contract...

**-Jrabbit** · December 9, 2012, 14:21

Alshon Jeffery falls down on his break >> INT >> quick 14-0 lead for the Vikings. Two quick TDs for AP.

This could get ugly.

**Al B. Sure!** · December 9, 2012, 14:23

Originally posted by -Jrabbit View Post

Alshon Jeffery falls down on his break >> INT >> quick 14-0 lead for the Vikings. Two quick TDs for AP.

This could get ugly.

My opponent has AP and little else. My fantasy team is weeping. Hopefully this forces Cutler to throw a ton to Brandon Marshall.

By the way, I love how Ben uses a ****ty o-line to excuse Rivers but does not consider how atrocious the Eagles' O-line is.

**-Jrabbit** · December 9, 2012, 14:35

Even funnier, I was trying to agree with him, but he felt a need to say that Matthews' poor season was NOT the line's fault.

He's just contrarian.

**Ben Kenobi** · December 9, 2012, 14:42

By the way, I love how Ben uses a ****ty o-line to excuse Rivers but does not consider how atrocious the Eagles' O-line is.

Vick has never been in the top half of any major QB stat in a season. In ANY season. And the Eagles have had no problems running the ball with McCoy.

**Ben Kenobi** · December 9, 2012, 14:45

Matthews' poor season was NOT the line's fault.

According to Football outsiders, the Chargers are about average when it comes to run blocking. Not great, but not terrible. They do ok at opening holes, but Mathews never gets into the second level. That's why he's been sucking this year and why the Chargers have atrocious run stats.

Yeah, I was surprised too, but that's what the stats show.

The Chargers were better off when Mathews was sitting his ass on the bench. They won 3 games without him and only one with him.

**Al B. Sure!** · December 9, 2012, 14:51

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post

Vick has never been in the top half of any major QB stat in a season. In ANY season. And the Eagles have had no problems running the ball with McCoy.

You know there's a difference between pass protecting and run blocking, right? You made the same argument about Matthews.

McCoy averaged 4.2 yards per carry this season, his lowest since his very disappointing rookie campaign backing up Westbrook. McCoy hasn't been the same.

Football Outsiders...

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

Eagles are 24th in pass protection and 19th in run blocking. Chargers are 27th and 17th.

By your own sources, the Eagles o-line is about the same as San Diego.

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post

Vick has never been in the top half of any major QB stat in a season.

Rushing yards? Rushing touchdowns?

Does not 46.1 yards rushing per game and 34 rushing TDs in his career help his team?

**Ben Kenobi** · December 9, 2012, 14:58

Wow, 13-0 for Carolina. Will the Falcons wake up?

**Ben Kenobi** · December 9, 2012, 15:03

You know there's a difference between pass protecting and run blocking, right? You made the same argument about Matthews.

Yeah, and the Chargers run O-Line is better than the pass O-Line. I think I just said that.

McCoy averaged 4.2 yards per carry this season, his lowest since his very disappointing rookie campaign backing up Westbrook. McCoy hasn't been the same.

And Vick has always struggled as a QB. McCoy was what, 2nd best last year to Foster? McCoy at least is steak while Vick, is at best, ground beef. Average at best. Comparing Vick's struggles to McCoy's struggles is comparing apples to oranges. Even if the line were good, Vick would still suck. Vick is to Mathews as McCoy is to PR.

Vick has never been in the top half of any major QB stat in a season.

Rushing yards? Rushing touchdowns?

Those are RB stats. I said QB stat. Completions, TDs thrown, yardage. You won't find Vick in the top half in any of those stats for any of his seasons.

Does not 46.1 yards rushing per game and 34 rushing TDs in his career help his team?

Frankly, no. 46.1 yards/game? LT average > 100 per game for the Chargers. 46 is terrible.

Mathews now 11-28.

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