NFL - Are You Ready For Some Football?! - Off Season

[Al B. Sure!]

Which would rank him?

Hrrm, third overall in the NFL. Behind Favre and Young. All Pro numbers.

In a really ****ing ****ty year. I already broke down just how terrible the QB situation was in 1998, particularly in the AFC.

[Ben Kenobi]

He was a prima donna and a drama queen from the get-go.

Which says, *exactly* what about his talent?

To blame "the NFL" for Doug Flutie's (you should pardon the term) shortcomings is disingenuous at best, as he refused to commit to the league, twice. And during his early career time in Chicago and New England, he did very little to distinguish himself.

I don't blame the NFL. I blame the Bears and their awesome QB coaches. Like I said they couldn't develop a QB at a Manning convention. There's a reason they won their Superbowl with Jim McMahon. They made less with more than anybody in the league at that position.

Rarely have I seen any athlete piss off Chicago teammates, management and fandom as quickly and irretrievably as did Doug Flutie. There was much rejoicing when he was traded to New England.

Thanks for that, BTW. Chicago sucks. He was long endeared everywhere else, in NE and in Canada.

The only treatment of Doug Flutie that seems blatantly unfair to me was the Bills in 98-99, when he was playing well but was benched for the playoffs in favor of the starter, Rob Johnson (returning from injury) on direct order of the owner, Ralph Wilson.

Hence the Flutie curse. They've not sniffed the playoffs since.

[Ben Kenobi]

In a really ****ing ****ty year. I already broke down just how terrible the QB situation was in 1998, particularly in the AFC.

He put up all pro numbers and you are arguing that he was undeserving of a pro bowl nomination. Well argued, Albert.

Doug Flutie's 13.4 is kind of high

Interesting how the numbers are when you dig into them, eh Albert? Pretty good for an old dude.

He was 5th overall in Y/C. Bledsoe was the only one with significantly more passing attempts.

Tied with Elway btw, who is Flutie's football contemporary.

Yards per attempt was also 5th, ahead of Bledsoe and behind Steve Young. Not bad company.

So, in conclusion.

Flutie as a backup took a non-playoff team to the playoffs, won pro bowl honours, was in the top five for y/c and y/a, went 7-3, and was a damn good QB in 1998, his first year back after his stint in the CFL. Not too shabby for a backup.

[Al B. Sure!]

Hence the Flutie curse. They've not sniffed the playoffs since.

What really happened was Bruce Smith, Andre Reed, Thurman Thomas, and all those other stars from the Jim Kelly-era retired. And Antowain Smith got injured, missing most of the 2000 season, and went off to the Pats.

There's a very obvious reason why the Bills became a bad team and it has nothing to do with Flutie.

[Ben Kenobi]

There's a very obvious reason why the Bills became a bad team and it has nothing to do with Flutie.

Yes, they were 6-10 BF. AF, they were a winning team again.

So whatever Flutie brought to the table in 1998 and 99 was sufficient to reverse the general decline at least for the two years he was there.

[Al B. Sure!]

Interesting how the numbers are when you dig into them, eh Albert? Pretty good for an old dude.

He was 5th overall in Y/C. Bledsoe was the only one with significantly more passing attempts.

Don't get too excited, cowboy.

You know who were the top-2 QB's in Y/C the next year, 1999?
Jeff George 14.7
Billy Joe Tolliver 13.8


oops. Forgot Billy Joe Tolliver was the starting QB of the Saints in 1998. God. How many ****ty QB's were there that year?

[Al B. Sure!]

Yes, they were 6-10 BF. AF, they were a winning team again.

So whatever Flutie brought to the table in 1998 and 99 was sufficient to reverse the general decline at least for the two years he was there.

They were 10-6 in both 1995 and 1996. They only dropped to 6-10 in 1997 because Todd Collins took over.

That's what you want me to admit, Ben? That Doug Flutie was a better QB than Todd Collins?

What else really happened was this:
Thurman Thomas' rushing stats:
1996: 1033 yards
1997: 643 yards

and this:
Antowain Smith's rushing stats:
1997: 840 yards (as a rookie)
1998: 1124 yards

Thurman Thomas was on his last-leg in 1997 and was sharing time with a rookie Antowain Smith. Doug Flutie's arrival coincided with Smith's maturation into a starting RB.

Ironically enough, Flutie's exit also coincided with Antowain Smith's as both left the Bills after the 2000 season.



Maybe it's not a Flutie curse! It's an Antowain Smith Curse!!!

[Ben Kenobi]

Oddly enough Y/A has one Kurt Warner fella. Never heard of him.

[-Jrabbit]

Blaming the Bears - who traded for him from the Rams, who held his rights but didn't sign him - is just idiotic. The team - to a man - hated the fact that he was brought in. Locker room dissension is poison, and it is surely part of the evaluation process. Ditka, despite the constant and public sniping, stuck with Flutie and gave him a chance - which was more than anyone else in the NFL had done.

This was a Super Bowl winning team, expected to be a dynasty, and Flutie puked all over himself in the playoffs (11 for 31, 134 yd, 1TD, 2INT).

The Bears did Flutie a favor by trading him to New England during the strike, giving him a chance to finally show he belonged (albeit while competing with inferior talent). The fact that Flutie did nothing worthwhile in 3 years in NE says to me that the Bears were right: Doug Flutie was not yet ready for prime time. And when the rest of your team is Super Bowl caliber, you don't put a despised player with no pro resume in the QB slot. Recipe for disaster.

Your absolute lack of any historical perspective or personal knowledge of Flutie's time in Chicago precludes your specious opinions from having any credibility whatsoever.

[Al B. Sure!]

Blaming the Bears - who traded for him from the Rams, who held his rights but didn't sign him - is just idiotic. The team - to a man - hated the fact that he was brought in. Locker room dissension is poison, and it is surely part of the evaluation process. Ditka, despite the constant and public sniping, stuck with Flutie and gave him a chance - which was more than anyone else in the NFL had done.

This was a Super Bowl winning team, expected to be a dynasty, and Flutie puked all over himself in the playoffs (11 for 31, 134 yd, 1TD, 2INT).

The Bears did Flutie a favor by trading him to New England during the strike, giving him a chance to finally show he belonged (albeit while competing with inferior talent). The fact that Flutie did nothing worthwhile in 3 years in NE says to me that the Bears were right: Doug Flutie was not yet ready for prime time. And when the rest of your team is Super Bowl caliber, you don't put a despised player with no pro resume in the QB slot. Recipe for disaster.

Your absolute lack of any historical perspective or personal knowledge of Flutie's time in Chicago precludes your specious opinions from having any credibility whatsoever.

Here's the summary:

The Redskins converted two turnovers into two touchdowns in the second half to overcome the defending champion Bears' 13-7 halftime lead. Washington scored first after quarterback Jay Schroeder threw a 28-yard touchdown to wide receiver Art Monk. Chicago countered in the second quarter with wide receiver Willie Gault's 50-yard touchdown reception from quarterback Doug Flutie. Bears kicker Kevin Butler then made two field goals before halftime. However, the Redskins took the lead in the third period after a Flutie interception set up an Art Monk 23-yard touchdown reception. Chicago then advanced to the Washington 17-yard line, but running back Walter Payton lost a fumble to the Redskins, who then marched 83 yards for a touchdown on a George Rogers 1-yard rush. Washington place kicker Jess Atkinson made two field goals in the final period to close out the scoring.

[Ben Kenobi]

And when the rest of your team is Super Bowl caliber, you don't put a despised player with no pro resume in the QB slot

That's Bears management for you. Look, he's been well loved in NE and well loved in Canada. Seems to me the odd man out is Chicago.

It's like Cam Neely. Didn't show anything as a Canuck and became a HOFer when traded. Same with Flutie. Who would expect to win a NFL championship with a rookie? I wouldn't. That Flutie was put in that position speaks volumes about Bears QB management.

Chicago countered in the second quarter with wide receiver Willie Gault's 50-yard touchdown reception from quarterback Doug Flutie

[-Jrabbit]

11 for 31, dude. With 50 of his 134 passing yards on that one play. And let's not forget the two INTs to go with that TD. He was Bambi in headlights.

This despite being pretty experienced for a "rookie" - 2 years of pro-style offense in the USFL under his belt.

He was well loved in NE because of his college career (certainly he did nothing noteworthy for the Pats).
He was well loved in Canada because he performed great there, bringing a shred of credibility to a previously laughingstock league.
Plus, short guys love him.

As for your knowledge-free evaluation of Bears management, they only went to Flutie after ongoing and continuing injuries to McMahon and his two backups (experienced but rag-armed Steve Fuller and a young Mike Tomczak). It started as an insurance policy when McMahon had some early injuries, triggering the trade (engineered by GM Vainisi and Ditka over the objections of the team president and head of player personnel). Then, after McMahon's career was destroyed by Charles Martin in Wk12, they had little choice but to try and salvage the season by trying to catch lightning in a bottle.

It is no coincidence that that they drafted a QB (Jim Harbaugh) in the first round in 1987, making the reviled Flutie expendable.

[Ben Kenobi]

It is no coincidence that that they drafted a QB (Jim Harbaugh) in the first round in 1987, making the reviled Flutie expendable.

How'd that work out for ya?

Here's the thing. You had a hidden bargain on your hands. You had a pro bowl QB and future franchise Quarterback already signed for a pittance.

You throw him out to the wolves and he flounders. Your response is to cut him and move on, and then DRAFT ANOTHER QB?!

Who turns into a complete bust.

Bears management at it's finest. He was unconventional. If Marino had the misfortune of playing for the bears, he would have been out of the league in two years.

[Ben Kenobi]

Fun fact, had Flutie played his entire career with the bears, he would have been the all-time leading Bears passer.

Sid Luckman is still the leading Bears QB of all time.

Harbough was your number one pick and his best year was 3000 yards with 15 TDs. Flutie, despite his abbreviated career did better. Flutie who you got for nothing. What a waste of a pick.

If you need a QB badly and you get a good kid cheap, stick with the kid. Don't waste a first round draft pick out of panic.

[SlowwHand]

Performances: Top 5 QBs of 2010

M. Vick
A. Rodgers
T. Brady
P. Manning
P. Rivers

Not Brees. Not Eli. Rivers.

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