NFL - Are You Ready For Some Football?! - Off Season

[Al B. Sure!]

Thank you Walter Payton

Walter Payton didn't even have a great year in 86. He was 32 years old and mustered 1333 yards and 8 TDs with a 4.2 ypc average. Good but not enough to carry an offense in the modern NFL. It was that combined with the other 1367 rushing yards from various RB's and the QB's that did it, it seems.

Still bizarre to see such deleterious QB play lead to a 14-2 season.

[-Jrabbit]

Statistically, the 1986 Bears defense was actually better than the 1985 Super Bowl team.

Following the fantastic 1985 season, the Bears looked primed for a dynasty.

The defense in '86 was actually better than the much heralded '85 defense, allowing only 187 points in the regular season.

Walter Payton managed his 10th straight 1,000-yard season.

The Bears lost all of two games, both started by third string QB Steve Fuller and were the heavy favorites to repeat as Super Bowl Champions.

QB Jim McMahon struggled with injuries all season long but was 7-0 when starting and had the Bears rolling towards the post season. But a dirty hit by Green Bay Packer Charles Martin in Week 12 that came seconds after McMahon had released the ball, ended McMahon's season.

This left the Bears with three poor choices in Steve Fuller, Mike Tomczak and Doug Flutie. None played well, and Doug Flutie threw 11-for-31 with 134 yards, one TD and two INTs as the Redskins upset the Bears in opening round of the playoffs.

Oh, what might have been...

McMahon's lacerated kidney was the difference. Flutie caused major dissension in the locker room and fell flat when given a huge opportunity in the playoffs. After "not giving him a chance" (per Kenobi), the Bears traded him to New England in the off-season, where he elected to cross the picket lines during the 1987 strike, making him even more friends in the NFLPA.

[Al B. Sure!]

So Doug Flutie cost the Bears in the playoffs?

Was that Doug Flutie's lone playoff performance? Oh wait. Nah it was 1 of 2 playoff games in his career

I'm still amused how any QB (Jim McMahon) can throw for 995 yards 5 TD 8 INT in 7 games and go 7-0 in that stretch.

I mean Trent Dilfer gets often used as the example of a bad QB winning on a great team otherwise but even Dilfer, in 8 regular season starts for the 2000 Ravens, still threw for 1502 yards 12 TD 11 INT.

[-Jrabbit]

McMahon was playing hurt through several of those games. He was never a statistical leader except in one category -- wins. Helps to have the dominant defense of the era constantly handing you the ball on a short field, too.

The mid-80s was also an era in which running the ball was still typical of top teams. The Super Bowl XX Bears team ran the ball 610 times, passed 432 times. In 1986, it was 606 runs, 415 passes.

By way of contrast: In 2010, only 4 teams had even 500 rushing attempts, and only one of those could be considered a dominant team (Jets). It's a different era.

[Ben Kenobi]

Along with the obvious issues with his measurables (i.e., being short), Flutie's bigger problems in the NFL were (1) signing with the USFL out of college, then (2) crossing the union picket lines during the strike. That's no way to make friends. With those moves, he alienated both management and his fellow players. This "me first" attitude proved to be his biggest enemy. It's not surprising that, after failing to impress in New England for three years post-scab, he then fled to Canada for the better part of a decade.

Which has jack squat to do with his ability on the football field. So you are admitting that politics kept him out of the NFL?

[Al B. Sure!]

Which has jack squat to do with his ability on the football field. So you are admitting that politics kept him out of the NFL?

If he was actually good, 'politics' would have not mattered a bit. He got 3 years post-scab to do his thing and sucked it up.

Lawrence Taylor did not strike. Steve Largent, Lynn Swann, Tony Dorsett, and Joe Montana crossed the picket lines after a week or two.

But see those guys were actually good.

[Ben Kenobi]

If he was actually good, 'politics' would have not mattered a bit. He got 3 years post-scab to do his thing and sucked it up.

He was never given the chance.

Lawrence Taylor did not strike. Steve Largent, Lynn Swann, Tony Dorsett, and Joe Montana crossed the picket lines after a week or two.

They were also household NFL names by then. Different situation for Flutie who was trying to break into the NFL.

But see those guys were actually good

So was Flutie. I find it funny how politics doesn't matter. Politics always matters. However, it has no reflection of his on the field abilities.

[Al B. Sure!]

He was never given the chance.

He got 13 starts in NE plus his starts with the replacements plus his 2 starts with the Bears.

[Ben Kenobi]

He got 13 starts in NE plus his starts with the replacements plus his 2 starts with the Bears.

So you believe that less than a full season of starts (never in the same year) is sufficient to assess the merits of a QB?

There are plenty of good QBs who did poorly their first year, and that includes Peyton Manning. They were given the opportunity to struggle, play through and learn the speed of the game.

[Al B. Sure!]

So you believe that less than a full season of starts (never in the same year) is sufficient to assess the merits of a QB?

There are plenty of good QBs who did poorly their first year, and that includes Peyton Manning. They were given the opportunity to struggle, play through and learn the speed of the game.

The never in the same year is how you know the negative assessment on the part of the NE coaching staff was true.

There's a big difference between a guy getting a few starts here and there over several years and a guy getting 16 straight as a rookie (by the way, Flutie had 13 NE starts + 2 starts for Chicago... that's 15. He started at least 1 game as a scab; I don't know how to look that up but he started at least 1, obviously, so he had at least 16 starts before the CFL).

What do I mean? The guy is getting evaluated on a daily basis at practice, in training camp, etc. over several years, even if he only gets to start a handful of games each year. His development is continuing regardless of whether or not he sees the field. It's why guys like Philip Rivers, Aaron Rodgers, Matt Cassel, etc. outperformed their peers who started as rookies because 16 games as a rookie, you're completely new to the game; getting your chance over years of learning means the bar is raised higher.

By the time he left for the CFL, Flutie had 4 years of experience accumulated in the NFL. He had been evaluated over and over again by two different teams over 4 years. Not to mention his USFL days.

[Al B. Sure!]

Granted, there are guys who have gotten evaluated by teams and were passed on but guys like that (Kurt Warner comes to mind) get attention in whatever Arena League, NFL Europe, CFL, etc. that they played in and when they return to the NFL, they show up big time.

Hell, you even got guys like Trent Green who got cut by a CFL team as well as NFL teams, never really had a stage of a smaller league to show off in, but talent wins out and he got his chance, as well.

What's Flutie's excuse?

[Al B. Sure!]

Trent Green should be a very interesting case for you, Ben. He was drafted 222nd overall by the Chargers, was cut after a year as a backup with no playing time. Went to the CFL, was cut by the BC Lions in 1994. Didn't get a start in the NFL until 1998 but he showed up. Threw for 3441 yards 23 TD 11 INT in his first season and ended up being one of the better QB's of his generation.

Talent shows up eventually.

[-Jrabbit]

Which has jack squat to do with his ability on the football field. So you are admitting that politics kept him out of the NFL?

Doug Flutie kept himself out of the NFL. He signed with Donald Trump's USFL franchise -- prior to the NFL draft.

Between that, an undistinguished early career, then the scab incident, then fleeing to Canada, it's fair to say that Doug Flutie was the one playing politics.

[Ben Kenobi]

What do I mean? The guy is getting evaluated on a daily basis at practice, in training camp, etc. over several years, even if he only gets to start a handful of games each year. His development is continuing regardless of whether or not he sees the field. It's why guys like Philip Rivers, Aaron Rodgers, Matt Cassel, etc. outperformed their peers who started as rookies because 16 games as a rookie, you're completely new to the game; getting your chance over years of learning means the bar is raised higher.

Philip Rivers took a very long time to be accurately assessed, and when he finally got released, did very well out of the gate.

However, he didn't really show his capabilities until well after. Why is it until the BC Lions worked with him, that Flutie was generally regarded as a success everywhere he went, *except* the NFL? That strikes to me as a failure of the NE and Bears organizations to properly develop him. You don't just blow the development of the best qb prospect of his draft year.

Let's look at some of the other picks. Bernie Kosar? Randall Cunningham? Those are the only other two QB picks that made the pro bowl, and Flutie was drafted in the 11th round.

You can't argue that was an accurate assessment of his talent, how many 11th rounders made the pro bowl?

[Ben Kenobi]

played in and when they return to the NFL, they show up big time.

He made the pro bowl.