NFL - Are You Ready For Some Football?! - 2010 Offseason

[Tuberski]

Obviously I didn't grow up with them as I did the Canucks. All I ask is that LT retires with them. Then I'll have no complaints about the coming Rivers era.

I agree, Tomlinson should retire with the Chargers. As long as he retires right now, he's only hurting the team otherwise.

ACK!

[duke o' york]

Rivers: NFL football
LDT: Married with Children

[Ben Kenobi]

Tomlinson should retire with the Chargers. As long as he retires right now, he's only hurting the team otherwise.

I'll agree if he has a second year under 1000 yards. Man's earned another chance.

[Ben Kenobi]

Rah,

Flutie played for the bears in '86.

He was only 23, born in October of '62.

Rivers, was born in December of 1981. He was 24, in 2006.

So Flutie with the Bears was younger than Philip Rivers in 2006.

[-Jrabbit]

Flutie was brought to Chicago at the trading deadline (Oct 16, so basically he was turning 24) because McMahon got hurt early in the year and and the backups we had (a young Tomczak and a rag-armed Steve Fuller) weren't cutting it. Ditka liked his moxie, but his presence caused great discord on the team (young, unproven, cocky, vertically challenged, didn't know the offense, and threw a ton of INTs in practice).

McMahon played hurt for most of that 14-2 season, but he went out late in the year with a lacerated kidney (the famed Charles Martin spiking incident in Green Bay).

Flutie got his first NFL start (a win) in the regular season finale, which earned him a shot at the playoff game against Washington. In which he sucked -- 12 for 32 and a key INT. With no support from either teammates or fans, the Bears traded him to New England in the offseason.

Ben, what I still don't understand is how this relates to the Chargers. Flutie only started one season for them (in which IIRC they started well but lost their last 8-9 games), then became Brees' backup. To me, it looks like San Diego used him as a stopgap and drafted a real QB as soon as they could.

So how do you align that with your contention that San Diego (his 5th NFL stop, if you count the Rams) was the only team that gave him a fair chance?

Looks to me like the Chargers used him for a year, saw he couldn't cut it, then turned him into a backup as soon as they could. And looking at his stats, deservedly so.

[Grandpa Troll]

Great post -Jrabbit!

[Ming]

And his stats during the one full San Diego season were pretty bad.

[Grandpa Troll]

And his stats during the one full San Diego season were pretty bad.

That place is like an Abyss, killed Fluties illustrious career**...shame I tell ya

[Ben Kenobi]

Well you have to understand the context. In 2000, the Chargers went 1-15.

Under Flutie for a full season, they went 5-11, and Fluties numbers at the age of 39, he had 3500 yards at 56 percent completion percentage, 15 TDs, 200 yards on the ground, one Rush TD and 18 INTs. Not great, but better than anything else they had. Certainly an NFL quality QB, but not an exceptional one.

There was zero QB controversy that year, and he started every game, something that never happened in Buffalo. In Buffalo, he only started 30 games in three seasons, and only ever after Rob Johnson got injured. He was always regarded as the backup behind the injury-prone Johnson. The year they made the playoffs, as you can see, he played in 11 games, starting only 5 and had a 4-1 record in those games. That year he had 1700 yards, 8 TDs and 3 INTs.

In the year Johnson was injured, he started in 15 games, 3171 yards passing, 475 yards rushing, went 10-5, 19 TDs, plus one rush TD to 16 INTs.

The Chargers started him at 39 for every game of the season, with the understanding that he would be the backup the next season and would mentor Brees afterwards. That was the deal. No QB controversy during the season. No crap like only starting when Johnson was injured. 16 games, no more no less. One last kick at the can.

This is why I consider it a fair shot. Oh, and they didn't get rid of him, when Brees did poorly two years later, they brought him back again at 41, where he started 5 games, went 2-3, but still rolled up 1100 yards on the season, 9 TDs to 4. This is one of the reasons why the Chargers management drafted Rivers in the 2004 season, because Brees did not substantially outperform Flutie. Brees responded with the 14-2 season we all know and love.

They had the lineup of Brees, Rivers and Flutie for that 2004 season, which has to be on of the all-time greatest QB lineups ever, perhaps behind only Montana and Young and even that's questionable.

[-Jrabbit]

They had the lineup of Brees, Rivers and Flutie for that 2004 season, which has to be on of the all-time greatest QB lineups ever, perhaps behind only Montana and Young and even that's questionable.

"Perhaps"?? "Questionable"??
One first-time Pro Bowler, a rookie and a little guy who only succeeded in Canada and college -- vs. a handful of ACTUAL Super Bowl rings from two of the absolute top QBs of all time?

That better be a troll, because if you're serious, then you're totally delusional.

You're a funny guy, Ben.

[Lord Avalon]

In 1998 and 1999, Johnson had a better QB rating than Flutie, and in 2000 he was only ~4 pts worse. Plus he's half a foot taller. So it's not hard to see why Buffalo would go with him when he was able. If he could have stayed healthy, Flutie would have had a lot less PT.

In 99 Flutie had a good record, but 55% completion and only 3 more TDs than INTs isn't that impressive.

[Grandpa Troll]

In 1998 and 1999, Johnson had a better QB rating than Flutie, and in 2000 he was only ~4 pts worse. Plus he's half a foot taller. So it's not hard to see why Buffalo would go with him when he was able. If he could have stayed healthy, Flutie would have had a lot less PT.

In 99 Flutie had a good record, but 55% completion and only 3 more TDs than INTs isn't that impressive.

apparently in San Diego thats considered a Franchise tag for a playah..............

[Grandpa Troll]

if you're serious, then you're totally delusional Ben.

Again, you are a wise man -Jrabbit..

[Ben Kenobi]

One first-time Pro Bowler, a rookie and a little guy who only succeeded in Canada and college -- vs. a handful of ACTUAL Super Bowl rings from two of the absolute top QBs of all time?

You're looking at the end of their careers.

Montana (30): 21,498 yards, 63 percent completion percentage, 141 TDs to 76 INTs. 57-30 4 Pro Bowls, 0 times all pro, 2 rings.

Brees: 30,646 yards, 64.8 percent completion percentage, 202 TDs to 110 INTs. 55-51 4 Pro Bowls, 1 All Pro

Young (28): 5668 Yards, 70 percent completion percentage 32 TDs to 27 INTs. 10-18 0 Pro Bowls

Rivers: 14,951 Yards, 63.1 percent completion percentage, 106 TDs to 45 INTs. 35-15 2 Pro Bowls

Combined win percentage: 92-66, vs 67-48, identical.

Now, if we look at the most stacked team of that era, the '89 Niners who had Montana, Young and Bono,

Bono (Career) 10,439 yards, 62 TDs 42 INTs 28-14 1 time pro bowler

Flutie (Career) 14,715 yards, 86 TDs 68 INTs 38-28 1 time pro bowler

So I think the comparison is very valid. At this point in their careers, the Chargers lineup of Brees, Rivers and Flutie is well ahead of Bono, Young and Montana. The only thing they lack are the 2 rings.

[Ben Kenobi]

In 1998 and 1999, Johnson had a better QB rating than Flutie, and in 2000 he was only ~4 pts worse. Plus he's half a foot taller. So it's not hard to see why Buffalo would go with him when he was able. If he could have stayed healthy, Flutie would have had a lot less PT.

And why was this? He took 110 sacks in 26 games, an average of 4.23 every game. Flutie took 48 behind that horrid O-Line, about 1.6 or so a game. To give you an idea of just how bad that line was, Flutie's career average was only 1.16 a game.

Johnson went 12-17. His passer rating was 85.5, despite only reaching 12 games max in a season. Flutie had a passer rating of 81.7.

Worth noting is why. Flutie passed for 7582 yards, 47 TDs to 30 TDs, and a completion percentage of 56.3 going 21-9 for Buffalo.

Johnson passed for 4798 yards, 27 TDs to 17 INTs, and a 60.5 completion percentage. The only real difference I can see is the completion percentage. That's the only reason why Rob Johnson in his tenure there had a higher rating.