FF09 IDP League Draft

[Guynemer]

Christ on a crutch, Ben...

[-Jrabbit]

Slowwy took the time to do the BAPAY, calling him incompetent is uncalled for. He was trying to help you out and to make things easier for you, then you **** all over him for trying to help.

I made the correct pick according to the rules. Nothing more, nothing less.

Slowwy made the pick. I agreed it was a fair pick. No harm no foul.

Wrong. Incorrect pick -- and THAT is what's not fair. We play by the rules here.

The only one with his knickers in a twist is you.

LOL. How many posts and PMs have you sent?

We haven't been following BAPAY strictly. As you've said, we've bypassed higher ranked players for perceived need of the player, and perceived competitiveness.

As stated previously, that was for competitive reasons through the first three rounds. Originally, we wanted no bapays at all through 3 rounds, but that proved impractical when multiple people wer MIA.

If it were a strictly mechanical process BAPAYS would actually be BAPAYS.

They are.

Slowwy and I agreed that Braylon Edwards was the best pick you should abide by the decision.

This is pretty funny. As if you two had discussed it and made a joint decision? Please. Besides, it doesn't matter. A Bapay is a Bapay, and is executed according to the rules. Which are very clear.

This is why we've gotten into arguments before, this isn't the first one. If you want to say that slowwy screwed up, that's fine. Don't expect either of us to BAPAY anyone anymore. Why put up with that ****?

Suit yourself. No one is required to help with anything.

Have we accused you of favouring your own team? No. Yet that was the very first thing you said about me. You ought to extend the same consideration.

As far as my team goes, I like to think that there have been no accusations becasue there has been no cause to complain. OTOH, I think you would be hard-pressed to find anyone who believes that the specific player involved didn't inspire this episode. I stand by my judgment on your motivation.

You owe Slowwy an apology at the very least. He tried to help and you got all pissy with him. Here's a thought, if you want other people to help you out, thank them for making the effort.

Sloww is a big boy. If he has an issue, I'm confident he will make me aware of it. Interesting that he hasn't posted once since you started wasting our time with this.

And telling me to stick it where the sun don't shine?

Some Commish!

I've been commissioner of multiple leagues for the past 4 years. I put a lot of time and effort into the draft -- getting people motivated, sending reminders, and getting things right. I have enough experience to post very specific rules. Ironically, to prevent arguments. I take great pride in the fact that people in my leagues tend to stay involved throughout the season (no abondoned teams), and complaints are pretty damned rare.

Your attempt to paint this as a debate is laughable. I was very clear in Post 150:

Just to explain -- I wanted to make sure any Bapays in the first 3 rounds would be logical picks, since wasted early picks in a 14-team draft are much more devastating than the usual 10-man configuration. As someone alluded to earlier, it's important to keep all 14 teams engaged, so I was exercising some discretionary power on behalf of spaced cowboy.

See? First three rounds, discretion so people don't get totally screwed. That's very specific. After that, it is a very mechanical rule, not open to interpretation.

The first BAPAY after round three was spaced cowboy at 4.7. My post there (#234) was very clear:

Sorting by Actual, the correct (non-RB, non-QB) player for spaced cowboy is actually Tony Gonzalez (#26). Top WR is Antonio Bryant (#41). Rules say he gets the TE...

See? After round 3, strict Bapay rules. NO INTERPRETATION.

Every other "debate" we've had has been in the first three rounds. And if you look, it's really just been a couple of early picks for spaced. The DOY picks are an exception, as he has specifically asked for draft help until he returns to the Web. I gave him Marshawn Lynch over Thomas Jones. I may have been wrong. But the Duke asked me to help, and I gave it my best shot.

There have been NO "debates" on Bapays after round 3. Until you started one.

Another observation: It was you who posted the following, in post 43:

If you end up with 17 TEs then so be it.

So apparently you're fine with other people getting screwed. But as soon as something happens that upsets your little world, it becomes a debate?

Frankly, I'm insulted that you think I would do anything less than play by the rules. I ask only the same of you.

[Deity Dude]

im here give me a sec just got home

[Deity Dude]

[QUOTE=Zopperoni;5660276]1.1 SlowwHand - Adrian Peterson - RB - MIN
1.2 EPW - Maurice Jones-Drew-RB-JAX
1.3 duke o' york - Michael Turner RB ATL (BAPAY)
1.4 Guynemer - Matt Forte RB CHI (list)
1.5 -Jrabbit - Steven Jackson RB STL
1.6 Deity Dude - Tom Brady QB NE
1.7 spaced cowboy - DeAngelo Williams RB CAR (BAPAY)
1.8 snoopy369 - Chris Johnson RB TEN (instructions)
1.9 Zopperoni - Drew Brees QB NO
1.10 Berzerker - Peyton Manning QB IND
1.11 Koyaanisqatsi - Steve Slaton RB HOU
1.12 Ben Kenobi - LaDainian Tomlinson RB SD
1.13 Jaguar - Frank Gore RB SF
1.14 Tuberski -Clinton Portis RB WAS

2.14 Tuberski - Larry Fitzgerald WR ARI
2.13 Jaguar - Brandon Jacobs RB NYG
2.12 Ben Kenobi - Philip Rivers QB SD
2.11 Koyaanisqatsi - Brian Westbrook RB PHI
2.10 Berzerker - Randy Moss WR NE
2.9 Zopperoni - Andre Johnson WR HOU
2.8 snoopy369 - Aaron Rodgers QB GB
2.7 spaced cowboy - Marion Barber - RB DAL
2.6 Deity Dude - Kevin Smith - RB DET
2.5 Jrabbit - Calvin Johnson WR DET
2.4 Guynemer - Greg Jennings WR GB
2.3 duke o' york - Steve Smith WR CAR (BAPAY -- fixed)
2.2 EPW -Reggie Wayne WR Ind
2.1 SlowwHand - Pierre Thomas RB NO

3.1 Slowwhand - Roddy White WR ATL
3.2 EPW -Ronnie Brown RB Mia
3.3 Duke o' York - Marshawn Lynch RB BUF (BAPAY)
3.4 Guynemer - Thomas Jones RB NYJ
3.5 Jrabbit - Ryan Grant RB GB
3.6 Deity Dude - Reggie Bush - RB - NO
3.7 spaced cowboy - Tony Romo - QB - DAL
3.8 snoopy369 - Knowshon Moreno - RB - DEN
3.9 Zopperoni - Darren McFadden RB OAK
3.10 Berzerker - Anquan Boldin WR AZ
3.11 Koyaanisqatsi - Wes Welker WR NE
3.12 Ben Kenobi - Antonio Gates TE SD
3.13 Jaguar - Donovan McNabb QB PHI
3.14 Tuberski - Larry Johnson RB KC

4.14 Tuberski - Roy Williams WR DAL
4.13 Jaguar - Julius Jones RB SEA
4.12 Ben Kenobi - Marques Colston WR NO
4.11 Koyaanisqatsi - Kurt Warner QB ARI
4.10 Berzerker - Jason Witten TE DAL
4.09 Zopperoni - Derrick Ward RB TB
4.08 Snoopy369 - Terrell Owens WR BUF
4.7 spaced cowboy - Chad Ochocinco WR CIN
4.6 Deity Dude - Joseph Addai - RB - Indy
4.5 Jrabbit - Jay Cutler QB CHI
4.4 Guynemer - Antonio Bryant WR TB
4.3 duke o' york - Matt Cassel QB KC (BAPAY)
4.2 EPW - Matt Schaub QB HOU (per instructions)
4.1 SlowwHand - Carson Palmer QB CIN

5.1 Slowwhand - T.J. Houshmandzadeh WR SEA
5.2 EPW - Dwayne Bowe WR KC (per instructions)
5.3 Duke o' York - Tony Gonzalez TE ATL (BAPAY)
5.4 Guynemer - Matt Ryan QB ATL
5.5 Jrabbit - Brandon Marshall WR DEN
5.6 Deity Dude - Dwayne Bowe KC (Changed from BAPAY)
5.7 spaced cowboy - Chris Wells RB ARI (from PM list)
5.8 snoopy369 - Jonathan Stewart RB CAR
5.9 Zopperoni - Braylon Edwards WR CLE
5.10 Berzerker -
5.11 Koyaanisqatsi -
5.12 Ben Kenobi -
5.13 Jaguar -
5.14 Tuberski -

I changed BAPAY to someone unselected

[Ben Kenobi]

First off:

If you end up with 17 TEs then so be it.

I made that statement, and I expect no mercy. If I'm late I expect the other players to screw me over and move on. That's the consequence of me holding up the show. You expect me to ***** about getting a ****ty BAPAY? Why do you think I make sure I'm here when the pick before me is made? I don't want to keep anyone waiting at all.

You want this to be the standard? Great. That means DD gets David Gerrard, who BTW is the actual BAPAY. If the machine were picking for DD, he'd get Gerrard. So he has a QB and needs a WR? Tough beans. Make sure you are there for your pick next time.

Don't claim this is an 'objective' process when you are making a judgement call based on his 'perceived needs' and not true BAPAYs. Slowwy made a pick, which in all honesty is the BAPAY. You admitted he was higher up on your draft board. I don't see why you changed his pick at all when there was already agreement it should stand.

As stated previously, that was for competitive reasons through the first three rounds. Originally, we wanted no bapays at all through 3 rounds, but that proved impractical when multiple people wer MIA.

So why are we still doing that now? Gerrard is the true BAPAY. If we are making this a judgment call based on perceived need (WR), then it's not really a BAPAY. It's a judgment call based on the decision of the other players.

This is pretty funny. As if you two had discussed it and made a joint decision?

Why is it funny? I don't find that funny at all. You think it's funny when Slowwy makes a pick, I agree and we move on?

Which are very clear.

Clear as mud. We've had this argument what, 3-4 times already?

As far as my team goes, I like to think that there have been no accusations becasue there has been no cause to complain. OTOH, I think you would be hard-pressed to find anyone who believes that the specific player involved didn't inspire this episode. I stand by my judgment on your motivation.

I'm not going to play the same game, JRabbit. You want to cast aspersions on a player, then you should step down as Commish. You have to be objective if you are going to make decisions and telling a player to shove it is not Kosher.

you started wasting our time with this.

You want me to start taking 4 hours on the dot? Can do. I'm not wasting anyone's time here. If you had said nothing, no one would have complained about Slowwy's BAPAY.

I've been commissioner of multiple leagues for the past 4 years. I put a lot of time and effort into the draft -- getting people motivated, sending reminders, and getting things right. I have enough experience to post very specific rules. Ironically, to prevent arguments. I take great pride in the fact that people in my leagues tend to stay involved throughout the season (no abondoned teams), and complaints are pretty damned rare.

Well I'm making a complaint here. Like it or not, I think it has merit. You would do well to consider the merits of the complaints and not the complainent.

See? First three rounds, discretion so people don't get totally screwed. That's very specific. After that, it is a very mechanical rule, not open to interpretation.

After round 3, strict Bapay rules. NO INTERPRETATION.

So why isn't he getting David Gerrard if we are going by strict BAPAY and not interpreting for perceived needs?

Frankly, I'm insulted that you think I would do anything less than play by the rules. I ask only the same of you.

Well I ask only that when you have a complaint you respond in a professional manner, rather then immediately attacking the complainant and casting aspersions on your perception of his motivations. Look, I didn't file the BAPAY. I think Braylon Edwards is a fine pick, and doesn't screw over the BAPAY. I honestly don't see why you decided to get involved at all.

[Ben Kenobi]

EPW picked Bowe.

[-Jrabbit]

DWAYNE BOWE IS ALREADY TAKEN, DD.

5.2 EPW - Dwayne Bowe WR KC (per instructions)

[-Jrabbit]

I'll address the "why not Garrard" question. From Post #10, on Bapay rules:

DRAFT RULES

BAPAY = Best Available Player At Yahoo.
[snipped for brevity]
All starting positions are filled first, offense prior to defense prior to kicker.

DD took Brady at 5 overall, so no QB2 until later -- after all starter save kicker. And since Bowe is gone, at this point, DD still has V. Jackson.

Note to all: BAPAY Rules have since clarified these rules further (previous page in standard view). So anyone can identify the position of need and assign the right player.

[-Jrabbit]

If you had said nothing, no one would have complained about Slowwy's BAPAY.

I'm quite confident this is not true. Experienced players here know the rules and abide by them. Many is the time that others have fixed incorrect Bapays. Happens all the time, because honest mistakes (like Sloww's this morning) happen.

Again, it's all about getting it right. Which we have done.

Now go read the rules. Or try to talk Deity Dude into changing his BAPAY. But know this: The correct BAPAY for Deity Due was Vincent Jackson, and that's really the only issue.

If DD wants to make a change, he is within his rights to do so -- according to the rules. So maybe you should be lobbying him instead of whining at me.

I've addressed every point with facts, with rules, with quotes, and with examples. Yeah, I threw in an insult or two along the way, but that was only because your argument was specious and self-serving. Oh -- and incorrect.

Meanwhile, it's 3pm and time for Berz's BAPAY...

[-Jrabbit]

Pay attention, class. The BAPAY for Berz is determined as follows: He already has a QB, TE and 2 WRs. I go to the league page on Yahoo. I select the Players tab (which defaults to All Offensive Players, 2008 season). I Click the word "Actual" and go down the list until I find a starting offensive position he needs.

The first 6 listings are QBs. The seventh is LenDale White, RB.

1.1 SlowwHand - Adrian Peterson - RB - MIN
1.2 EPW - Maurice Jones-Drew-RB-JAX
1.3 duke o' york - Michael Turner RB ATL (BAPAY)
1.4 Guynemer - Matt Forte RB CHI (list)
1.5 -Jrabbit - Steven Jackson RB STL
1.6 Deity Dude - Tom Brady QB NE
1.7 spaced cowboy - DeAngelo Williams RB CAR (BAPAY)
1.8 snoopy369 - Chris Johnson RB TEN (instructions)
1.9 Zopperoni - Drew Brees QB NO
1.10 Berzerker - Peyton Manning QB IND
1.11 Koyaanisqatsi - Steve Slaton RB HOU
1.12 Ben Kenobi - LaDainian Tomlinson RB SD
1.13 Jaguar - Frank Gore RB SF
1.14 Tuberski -Clinton Portis RB WAS

2.14 Tuberski - Larry Fitzgerald WR ARI
2.13 Jaguar - Brandon Jacobs RB NYG
2.12 Ben Kenobi - Philip Rivers QB SD
2.11 Koyaanisqatsi - Brian Westbrook RB PHI
2.10 Berzerker - Randy Moss WR NE
2.9 Zopperoni - Andre Johnson WR HOU
2.8 snoopy369 - Aaron Rodgers QB GB
2.7 spaced cowboy - Marion Barber - RB DAL
2.6 Deity Dude - Kevin Smith - RB DET
2.5 Jrabbit - Calvin Johnson WR DET
2.4 Guynemer - Greg Jennings WR GB
2.3 duke o' york - Steve Smith WR CAR (BAPAY -- fixed)
2.2 EPW -Reggie Wayne WR Ind
2.1 SlowwHand - Pierre Thomas RB NO

3.1 Slowwhand - Roddy White WR ATL
3.2 EPW -Ronnie Brown RB Mia
3.3 Duke o' York - Marshawn Lynch RB BUF (BAPAY)
3.4 Guynemer - Thomas Jones RB NYJ
3.5 Jrabbit - Ryan Grant RB GB
3.6 Deity Dude - Reggie Bush - RB - NO
3.7 spaced cowboy - Tony Romo - QB - DAL
3.8 snoopy369 - Knowshon Moreno - RB - DEN
3.9 Zopperoni - Darren McFadden RB OAK
3.10 Berzerker - Anquan Boldin WR AZ
3.11 Koyaanisqatsi - Wes Welker WR NE
3.12 Ben Kenobi - Antonio Gates TE SD
3.13 Jaguar - Donovan McNabb QB PHI
3.14 Tuberski - Larry Johnson RB KC

4.14 Tuberski - Roy Williams WR DAL
4.13 Jaguar - Julius Jones RB SEA
4.12 Ben Kenobi - Marques Colston WR NO
4.11 Koyaanisqatsi - Kurt Warner QB ARI
4.10 Berzerker - Jason Witten TE DAL
4.09 Zopperoni - Derrick Ward RB TB
4.08 Snoopy369 - Terrell Owens WR BUF
4.7 spaced cowboy - Chad Ochocinco WR CIN
4.6 Deity Dude - Joseph Addai - RB - Indy
4.5 Jrabbit - Jay Cutler QB CHI
4.4 Guynemer - Antonio Bryant WR TB
4.3 duke o' york - Matt Cassel QB KC (BAPAY)
4.2 EPW - Matt Schaub QB HOU (per instructions)
4.1 SlowwHand - Carson Palmer QB CIN

5.1 Slowwhand - T.J. Houshmandzadeh WR SEA
5.2 EPW - Dwayne Bowe WR KC (per instructions)
5.3 Duke o' York - Tony Gonzalez TE ATL (BAPAY)
5.4 Guynemer - Matt Ryan QB ATL
5.5 Jrabbit - Brandon Marshall WR DEN
5.6 Deity Dude - Vincent Jackson WR SD (BAPAY)
5.7 spaced cowboy - Chris Wells RB ARI (from PM list)
5.8 snoopy369 - Jonathan Stewart RB CAR
5.9 Zopperoni - Braylon Edwards WR CLE
5.10 Berzerker - LenDale White RB TEN
5.11 Koyaanisqatsi -
5.12 Ben Kenobi -
5.13 Jaguar -
5.14 Tuberski -

See? Easy.
PM to Koy.

[-Jrabbit]

Picks to Sloww in both leagues.

Apparently Sloww is holding Koy's list. So I'm sending Sloww a PM as well.

[Ben Kenobi]

If DD wants to make a change, he is within his rights to do so -- according to the rules. So maybe you should be lobbying him instead of whining at me.

Why? It's his decision, not mine.

As for insults, if the argument is wrong, it's wrong and leave it at that. I don't think you are a bad commissioner, far from it. Insults detract from your argument.

As for the pick, had Slowwy chosen Vincent Jackson, I wouldn't have questioned it. For me, I care more that the BAPAY is reasonable and fills a need. Beyond that I don't care. We are just trying to help you out and keep the draft rolling along. Part of being a commish is to know when not to intervene.

[Berzerker]

1.1 SlowwHand - Adrian Peterson - RB - MIN
1.2 EPW - Maurice Jones-Drew-RB-JAX
1.3 duke o' york - Michael Turner RB ATL (BAPAY)
1.4 Guynemer - Matt Forte RB CHI (list)
1.5 -Jrabbit - Steven Jackson RB STL
1.6 Deity Dude - Tom Brady QB NE
1.7 spaced cowboy - DeAngelo Williams RB CAR (BAPAY)
1.8 snoopy369 - Chris Johnson RB TEN (instructions)
1.9 Zopperoni - Drew Brees QB NO
1.10 Berzerker - Peyton Manning QB IND
1.11 Koyaanisqatsi - Steve Slaton RB HOU
1.12 Ben Kenobi - LaDainian Tomlinson RB SD
1.13 Jaguar - Frank Gore RB SF
1.14 Tuberski -Clinton Portis RB WAS

2.14 Tuberski - Larry Fitzgerald WR ARI
2.13 Jaguar - Brandon Jacobs RB NYG
2.12 Ben Kenobi - Philip Rivers QB SD
2.11 Koyaanisqatsi - Brian Westbrook RB PHI
2.10 Berzerker - Randy Moss WR NE
2.9 Zopperoni - Andre Johnson WR HOU
2.8 snoopy369 - Aaron Rodgers QB GB
2.7 spaced cowboy - Marion Barber - RB DAL
2.6 Deity Dude - Kevin Smith - RB DET
2.5 Jrabbit - Calvin Johnson WR DET
2.4 Guynemer - Greg Jennings WR GB
2.3 duke o' york - Steve Smith WR CAR (BAPAY -- fixed)
2.2 EPW -Reggie Wayne WR Ind
2.1 SlowwHand - Pierre Thomas RB NO

3.1 Slowwhand - Roddy White WR ATL
3.2 EPW -Ronnie Brown RB Mia
3.3 Duke o' York - Marshawn Lynch RB BUF (BAPAY)
3.4 Guynemer - Thomas Jones RB NYJ
3.5 Jrabbit - Ryan Grant RB GB
3.6 Deity Dude - Reggie Bush - RB - NO
3.7 spaced cowboy - Tony Romo - QB - DAL
3.8 snoopy369 - Knowshon Moreno - RB - DEN
3.9 Zopperoni - Darren McFadden RB OAK
3.10 Berzerker - Anquan Boldin WR AZ
3.11 Koyaanisqatsi - Wes Welker WR NE
3.12 Ben Kenobi - Antonio Gates TE SD
3.13 Jaguar - Donovan McNabb QB PHI
3.14 Tuberski - Larry Johnson RB KC

4.14 Tuberski - Roy Williams WR DAL
4.13 Jaguar - Julius Jones RB SEA
4.12 Ben Kenobi - Marques Colston WR NO
4.11 Koyaanisqatsi - Kurt Warner QB ARI
4.10 Berzerker - Jason Witten TE DAL
4.09 Zopperoni - Derrick Ward RB TB
4.08 Snoopy369 - Terrell Owens WR BUF
4.7 spaced cowboy - Chad Ochocinco WR CIN
4.6 Deity Dude - Joseph Addai - RB - Indy
4.5 Jrabbit - Jay Cutler QB CHI
4.4 Guynemer - Antonio Bryant WR TB
4.3 duke o' york - Matt Cassel QB KC (BAPAY)
4.2 EPW - Matt Schaub QB HOU (per instructions)
4.1 SlowwHand - Carson Palmer QB CIN

5.1 Slowwhand - T.J. Houshmandzadeh WR SEA
5.2 EPW - Dwayne Bowe WR KC (per instructions)
5.3 Duke o' York - Tony Gonzalez TE ATL (BAPAY)
5.4 Guynemer - Matt Ryan QB ATL
5.5 Jrabbit - Brandon Marshall WR DEN
5.6 Deity Dude - Vincent Jackson WR SD (BAPAY)
5.7 spaced cowboy - Chris Wells RB ARI (from PM list)
5.8 snoopy369 - Jonathan Stewart RB CAR
5.9 Zopperoni - Braylon Edwards WR CLE
5.10 Berzerker - Leon Washington RB NYJ (bapay change)
5.11 Koyaanisqatsi -
5.12 Ben Kenobi -
5.13 Jaguar -
5.14 Tuberski -

oops, forgot - pm sent to koy

[-Jrabbit]

Part of being a commish is to know when not to intervene.

Agreed. But this morning was not that time. When the rules are contravened, it's my job to step in and make things right. You can count on that continuing.

As for the pick, had Slowwy chosen Vincent Jackson, I wouldn't have questioned it.

It took you 5 hours to make that claim. And while your first three picks and all of today's drama make me doubt the statement's veracity, I can accept it at face value.

[Ben Kenobi]

What do the rules say about a player changing a BAPAY with an illegal player? He obviously doesn't want the BAPAY.