AHL- Apolyton Hockey League 07/08: IV The Rookie Menace

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Jesus ****in McCabe.

He just missed scoring on his net with a second left in the third, but no worries, he comes through with three seconds left in OT to score on Raycroft.

I got bored so I searched for posts from before last season, where Tingkai and I got into a debate about McCabe. I took the position that he was being grossly overpaid and was unreliable. Tingkai disagreed:

http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4492770#post4492770

Yes, in the past he has taken bad penalties, but that was part of the old NHL where D-men would clutch and grab and most of the time get away with it, and some of the time not.

In the new NHL, McCabe has been forced to adjust and change his game, and he has done so. With Maurice as coach, McCabe will be forced to become more disciplined.

As for his salary, it is inline with other league salaries.

The comments by Cox was written early in the month. This week we're seeing that McCabe's salary is not out of line. Redden is $6.5 million, which reflects his superior skills.

On a GM choosing between Phaneuf and McCabe:

As for McCabe, a top three d-man for points, top three on the powerplay, which is vital in the new NHL, a player with a proven record of producing points, and a player who had the skills to adapt to the new NHL.

Who would a coach take? Depends on what a team needs. If the team needs a offensive d-man, then they go with McCabe. If they need a veteran d-man who they can rely on, they go with McCabe. If they a player who can put in 25 minutes plus a game, they go with McCabe.

And this comment before the Flames finished #7 in the league for goals for, ahead of Toronto:

The problem with the Flames is not its defence, it's the offence.

The problem with the Leafs last year was Quinn's weird belief that there was no need to teach players any system. He relied on their natural abilities, which never worked when crunch time came down.

Maurice uses a completely different system that puts an emphasis on training and getting players ready to handle different systems.

Flames fans can only look forward to more of the disappointing same old defeats. Toronto fans can look forward to a year of improvement.

And this gem, before the season started (in which Toronto missed the playoffs):

The Leafs have been there, done that. We've had our dynasties and our droughts so we know what it takes to win,

And apparently Calgary needs less of players like Phaneuf and more like McCabe:

McCabe scored more points than Iginla. He's an offensive defencemen, which is something Calgary lacks big time.

Oh, sweet hilarity.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher
I take it you don't know how baseball works either with lefty/righty pitchers?

Methinks you don't take the statistical side of hockey as serious as you should.

Jesus, Asher, do I really have to explain why the lefty-righty of a hockey goalie is completely different from the lefty-righty of a baseball pitcher?

Come on Asher. Think about it. Do you get it or are as ignorant about baseball as you are about hockey?

And even if you don't have the slightest clue, just look at the first set of numbers on that blog, and think about it.

Look at those numbers.

[snoopy369]

Can the goalie switch glove hands in between?

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher
I got bored so I searched for posts

OK, you need to get a life. No matter how bored you are, searching oldposts is really, really pathetic.

And you know what, other than saying McCabe was a complete friggen idiot the other night, I'm mean an absolute dipwad, all I've got to say is searching old Ploy post is really sad.

Dude, find a hobby.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai


OK, you need to get a life. No matter how bored you are, searching oldposts is really, really pathetic.

And you know what, other than saying McCabe was a complete friggen idiot the other night, I'm mean an absolute dipwad, all I've got to say is searching old Ploy post is really sad.

Dude, find a hobby.

It's a workday, Tingkai...and it took all of 5 minutes to do.

You have to think -- what time is it in Toronto right now?

I'd love nothing more but to find a hobby to do right now, but alas I'm stuck at work.

I do find it remarkable though -- it's REALLY hard for somebody to be wrong so consistently about something they get all high and mighty about. I think by showing your previous predictions and comments on hockey we can establish a base of knowledge for your current predictions and hockey knowledge.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Jesus, Asher, do I really have to explain why the lefty-righty of a hockey goalie is completely different from the lefty-righty of a baseball pitcher?

Come on Asher. Think about it. Do you get it or are as ignorant about baseball as you are about hockey?

And even if you don't have the slightest clue, just look at the first set of numbers on that blog, and think about it.

Look at those numbers.

All I'm saying is glove-handedness matters, as the vast majority goalies catch with the left hand. When you get a really good right-handed catching goalie, it's an asset that can be used since players have less practice shooting on such a goalie. Out of instinct and practice, many will shoot "glove-side" and get the blocker, or vice versa. It's not unheard of, and statistically there's a difference between left and right-catching goalies on shooters.

[snoopy369]

Actually, it looks like it's a positive correlation between the handedness of the shooter and the glove handedness of the goalie, not just the goalie (which makes it exactly like baseball, if you treat 'glove hand' like 'hand'). (I didn't read the earlier part of your argument, but you don't mention this in the previous post.) I presume most skaters 'shoot' right handed, so a right glove hand (left handed) goalie would actually be a 'bad' thing in general (as most skaters are right handed). You would get a more significant benefit against left handed skaters, but there are fewer of them (I presume). That blog is suggesting changing the skater lineup to reflect the goalie, not the other way around.

[Asher]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Actually, it looks like it's a difference between the handedness of the shooter and the handedness of the goalie, not just the goalie. (I didn't read the earlier part of your argument, but you don't mention this in the previous post.) I presume most skaters 'shoot' right handed, so a right glove hand (left handed) goalie would actually be a 'bad' thing in general (as most skaters are right handed). You would get a more significant benefit against left handed skaters, but there are fewer of them (I presume). That blog is suggesting changing the skater lineup to reflect the goalie, not the other way around.

Yes, because the blog is about shootouts specifically where you can't change the goalie for the shootout (but you do choose your skaters).

The numbers simply illustrate that which side you catch with matters, it's not an insignificant detail. Whether it's beneficial or not is another discussion and rather situation-specific.

As a side note, the majority of European players shoot left while North American players tend to shoot right.

I just did a spotcheck, of the top 10 scorers in the NHL right now, 7 shoot left and 3 shoot right.

[snoopy369]

I would suggest that more than likely it matters much less in non-shooutouts than in shootouts (barring penalty shots of course). Of course I don't have data on this, but it matters in shootouts particularly because of the one on one nature of the event (similar to baseball...), because most goalies are better at stopping the puck with the glove than the stick (obviously), and it's a shorter distance (less across the goalie's body) to the left side (from goalie's perspective) for a right handed shooter (thus better shot), and the reverse for left.

In a regular game situation, I think that probably matters less; what probably would matter more there would be which side of the net you're on taking the shot, and specific kinds of shots (for example, a right side defensemen has an easier one-timer to the right side of a left handed goalie, etc.) However, in general in a regular time game, you are not shooting straight on, most of the time, so the specific advantage (easier shot on the stick side) is usually not present (particularly as you can just go from the other side). I suspect goalie skill as well as all of the other factors in play would massively swamp any minor effect from the goalie's glove hand.

I'd also say that the blog was talking about shooters vs goalies, not goalies, and that matters a LOT. There was very little difference between RHG and LHG against a same sided shooter, and what difference you might see is probably statistically insignificant - there are few enough RHG that the 'quality' of the few RHGs is probably outweighing the hand difference between them and LHG (while i would say that the RHG/RHS vs RHG/LHS or LHG/LHS vs LHG/RHS is significant, as it is a much larger difference).

Your spot check (if it were proven statistically significant, which it of course is not) would tell me that LHS shoot better at LHGs in the regular season, or else that european players are better than north american players ... and I think you know which of those two are more likely

[Asher]

I think it's a great discussion to have, and certainly not something to dismiss outright like some people would think.

Statistically, there are differences and it's interesting to reason why this is. Similarly, why do Euros tend to shoot left? There's all kinds of different explanations and theories, the most plausible involves age of starting hockey (which is younger in Canada) and stick torque and the like. But that's another issue.

I think having a good goalie who catches with an unusual hand is an asset, not only statistically but also using intuition -- eg, it's not what skaters are used to.

[Asher]

Also, Robbie Schremp is playing with Hemsky vs Phoenix tonight. Talk about a gift-wrapped opportunity.

I'm thinking pointless and -2.

And Lupul seems to be doing well now that he's playing with genuine talent, not Hemsky...

[Asher]

And Souray is out with a dislocated shoulder.

[Flubber]

I am still womdering why we all suck so bad on plus minus-- One would think that if we all picked good players, our aggregate plus minus would be around 0or slightly positive-- But I just added it up for this week and between us all we are MINUS 14. Are the higher point getters ( ie the folks we pick) inherently negative for their teams? It would seem so if the aggregate scores for these folks are usually negative

heck last week our teams were an aggregate of MINUS 41

How is this happening ? Since plus minus is inherently a zero-sum game ( with the exception of SHG which give out more minuses than pluses) how is it that our players in total fare so badly?

[Flubber]

Oh and in a weird twist, my learned opponent had the possibility to have two goalie games tonight but it appears he will end up with none. Turco is "playing" for him while not playing in real life while Norrena is "benched" but actually playing in the game. This could be deep strategy but I would have thought when your goalies go ahead to head, that you would put both on your roster and and if they both actually played , you would be guaranteed a win.

[Asher]

What do you think about the retarded press in Montreal, Flubber?

They think Sutter's going to trade Tanguay for Kovalev. And they're serious about it. :blank: