AHL- Apolyton Hockey League 07/08: IV The Rookie Menace

[Asher]

I'm not sure the Leafs are as entrenched as many people think they are. People are "fans" cause they're the local team, but most people in Toronto I know loathe the organization right now. Giving them another team to cheer for would get a lot of fans pretty quickly.

As for TV, I think there's lot of choices.

CityTV could do one (don't they do Sens games in Ottawa?)
TSN could do one.
Sportsnet could do one.
The local Global affiliate could do one.
The local CTV affiliate could do one.

Hockey is huge. A lot of those stations would get more ratings with hockey than their typical programming.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kontiki


Because the Leafs are too entrenched. I think in order to gain traction, you need put another team in an area that's far enough away from Toronto and with enough of a distinct identity and independent media.

That makes sense to me. Put a team somewhere close but distinct enough that they can enjoy " beating Toronto"

Unfortunately most expansion teams suck for so long that they have difficulty beating anyone for a while. A trasnfer of a decent team could be ok though

[Kontiki]

I think they're vastly more entrenched than you give them credit. The fact that people loathe the organization speaks to that - they're big time fans, and hate the direction the team is going at the moment. As a Vancouver fan, I don't hate the Leafs, I just don't care much about them and enjoy laughing at how badly managed they are.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Kontiki
I think they're vastly more entrenched than you give them credit. The fact that people loathe the organization speaks to that - they're big time fans, and hate the direction the team is going at the moment. As a Vancouver fan, I don't hate the Leafs, I just don't care much about them and enjoy laughing at how badly managed they are.

I just did a little straw poll at the office, and everyone here is extremely receptive to another team in Toronto -- if only because they could now go to games.

If NY can support 3 teams within 30 mins of eachother, Toronto could definitely do it as well. One of the biggest hockey markets in the world is being squandered by one pathetic franchise.

[Kontiki]

Greater New York is more than twice the size of greater Toronto - and even greater than that proportionally in terms of media - and yet the Isles and Devils have a hard time selling out any games. Granted there's a greater percentage of hockey fans here than in NY, but with all the other factors in NY's favor, I don't see three teams working out here. I'd rather not see franchises moved to areas that can just kinda support them, but rather to areas where they'd flourish.

Anyway, I'm going to drop this now since I know you won't let it go and I have to get back to work.

[Asher]

There aren't many places left where they WOULD flourish. A team in Mississauga would do better than a team in Saskatoon by a longshot, for instance.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Asher
There aren't many places left where they WOULD flourish. A team in Mississauga would do better than a team in Saskatoon by a longshot, for instance.

As a big hockey fan , I always like to think that hockey should succeed in any marketplace that is big enough, IF only the people get enough exposure to it. It is such a wonderful game, exciting and fast etc etc that everyone will like it.

But the realist has seen that that is not the case . The US marketplace is decidedly mixed when it comes to hockey and many can take it or leave it

[Kontiki]

In terms of making a go of it, I think the only real fertile ground left for the NHL is Europe, but definitely not places like London or Paris. I think from a business standpoint, you could have teams in Stockholm, Prague, Helsinki and maybe a few other traditional hockey markets (Moscow?), but I'm not sure the impact on the league in terms of things like travel would be worth it. I'm not sure the NHLPA would go for it either.

Edit: Other than relocation of teams to Winnipeg and Hamilton, and maybe - big maybe - Quebec City.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kontiki
In terms of making a go of it, I think the only real fertile ground left for the NHL is Europe, but definitely not places like London or Paris. I think from a business standpoint, you could have teams in Stockholm, Prague, Helsinki and maybe a few other traditional hockey markets (Moscow?), but I'm not sure the impact on the league in terms of things like travel would be worth it. I'm not sure the NHLPA would go for it either.

While I am sure that there are those in the NHL that salivate at the idea of European expansion, there are a whole host of problems that make it unlikely. heck teams now complain about their travel and can you even imagine the tax implications for the players ?? The marginal rates in Scandanavia can be pretty scary from what I understand

[Flubber]

Kolzig -- any offers for Kolzig ??

Sales pitch-- a very consistent performer over the years who has numbers this year better than about 90% of the goalies out there. His team is much improved and he
should be a steady producer of wins

Price

A RW -- be reasonable-


Since half the teams out there have goalies squads that were in total below .900 and others have decent goalies on non-winning teams, the combination of save % and winning potential should be attractive

[Sparrowhawk]

Wow, there is a lot here I would like to respond to but I don't have much time.

Possible markets in my mind?
U.S.?
- Seattle
- Portland
- Milwaukee
- stay away from any more southern locations

Canadian?
- Winnipeg
- Windsor? (similar to Asher's thinking of the southern Ontario market supporting two teams, I dont' see why the Detroit market wouldn't do the same)
- GTA (though like Windsor, the NHL's rules on the rights to an area will limit the possibility of that ever happening).

And as for Asher saying that Edmonton's fans are "fairweather" because of "only" filling the arena to 98.5% of capacity I can only at that. Not even worth a response and I will take it as intended, a troll intended to get a response out of the Oiler fans

And as for "Southern Ontario" and the number of teams it would support, am I safe in assuming that all of you southern Canadians are calling Ottawa "Northern" Ontario? :rotfllmao:

I think there was more I wanted to respond to, but can't remember what all I wanted to say!

/me

[Asher]

- Windsor? (similar to Asher's thinking of the southern Ontario market supporting two teams, I dont' see why the Detroit market wouldn't do the same)

They can't even support their one team right now. Look at their attendance.

I was in Detroit for a playoff game and there were ~2000 empty seats...

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by Sparrowhawk
Wow, there is a lot here I would like to respond to but I don't have much time.

Possible markets in my mind?
U.S.?
- Seattle
- Portland
- Milwaukee
- stay away from any more southern locations

Seattle and Portland are definitively not hockey markets. I'm not sure about Milwaukee, but it would be light years ahead of Las Vegas, which is one of the more likely expansion cities as long as Bettman is still around.

Canadian?
- Winnipeg
- Windsor? (similar to Asher's thinking of the southern Ontario market supporting two teams, I dont' see why the Detroit market wouldn't do the same)
- GTA (though like Windsor, the NHL's rules on the rights to an area will limit the possibility of that ever happening).

Winnipeg would support the team in terms of fans, but there's always the question about the size of the market. It's 650,000, with almost no feeder market beyond the city boundaries. I still think it could work there, though.

Windsor is a total no-go. Crossing the border gets harder every day even if people from Detroit would be inclined to do so, and Windsor isn't particulary convenient for the rest of southern Ontario.

And as for "Southern Ontario" and the number of teams it would support, am I safe in assuming that all of you southern Canadians are calling Ottawa "Northern" Ontario? :rotfllmao:

Ottawa is eastern Ontario, and considerably further from Toronto than Calgary is from Edmonton. Detroit is closer to Toronto than Ottawa is, and Buffalo is way closer than either.

[Flubber]

Flames trail 2-0 early and the dang game is only on PPV AGAIN.

I think I have been able to see pretty much EVERY game for the oil, Nucks and Leafs but the Flames seem to be PPV a lot

[Kontiki]

Man, my team is sucking something fierce so far tonight.