Pro-Life Activist Gunned Down in Michigan

[Asher]

OMG, a martyr!

Sig material?

[rah]

Now we have a martyr. God bless you Jim!

Yep, that's exactly what he said. (just in case he goes back and edits it)

[Ben Kenobi]

When I was young and an alterboy, I served many a funeral. Even the widows that thought their husbands were in heaven didn't quite have your attitude. I smell baloney.

You think I'm joyful? I'm many things right now. I'm angry that someone would do this, and that someone would target prolifers. I'm sad for the man and his family and his friends who will have to go through the funeral and say goodbye. I'm happy for Jim, because he is with his Father in heaven whom he loves very much. I'm concerned for others, and some very good friends of mine, whom I love dearly who do much the same work. I'm thankful for the few friends with whom I have spoken.

I had more formal Christian training then you will ever have so don't tell me what to understand. I think I'm seeing quite clearly.

If you've been so well trained, why turn you back on it? I've always been very honest that I am just learning. I've never said I'm trained as a theologian, quite the opposite in fact. You've been very honest that you don't believe in all this hooey, so why are you telling me that you know better than me?

[Arrian]

Think of it as OMG, a martyr!

Awesome. You just took it to 11.

-Arrian

[Ben Kenobi]

Yep, that's exactly what he said. (just in case he goes back and edits it)

Why on earth would I do so? Quote it all you want.

[rah]

If you've been so well trained, why turn you back on it? I've always been very honest that I am just learning. I've never said I'm trained as a theologian, quite the opposite in fact. You've been very honest that you don't believe in all this hooey, so why are you telling me that you know better than me?

1. because the nuns trained me pretty thoroughly and the most important thing they taught be was to use reason and test everything. Faith takes care of anything left. As I said, they taught me well.

2. Because of all the people that are brainwashed like you. They repeat dogma and use faith as an excuse not to think. They are are right and everyone else is wrong. And there were enough so called christians that were really bigots hiding behind their faith. My father in law was a devote catholic yet i've never heard a man use words like ****, ******, wop, *** as often as he did. I tried to keep my daughter away from him as much as possible.

I'll admit that I had and still have a lot respect for a lot of the nuns and priests that taught me. They believe, but still think, and they didn't hate.
Most christians have not earned my respect.

[OzzyKP]

For the record, I didn't see anybody post any glee about the shooting here except for one person. So saying pro-choice people are indifferent to this is outright wrong.

When Tiller was shot there were immediate and vocal condemnations of the violence, sympathy for Tiller and his family, and attempts to make political hay out of it in the media and by dozens of my generally liberal & pro-choice friends on Facebook. The attempt was made, over and over again, to say that this one murder was proof that pro-lifers were all blood-thirsty hypocrites.

Again, going back to the scientific sample of my Facebook friends list, not a single person said a word about this murder. In this thread all anyone is concerned about is attacking Ben for his dumb statements.

I understand Asher's point earlier that murder is so obviously wrong there is no need to go out of one's way to state the obvious and condemn this murder. But yet everyone did when Tiller was killed. So one could reasonably conclude that people either don't really care about this dead pro-lifer, or they were only condemning the Tiller murder for political reasons.

And while Ben's gleeful reaction is worth scorn, it is just a more honest (though more glaringly distasteful) expression of the feelings some pro-choicers felt with their politicized condemnations & sympathy a few months back.

[rah]

Lack of condemnation is a far cry from supporting it.
I'm with Asher, condemnation is the default. And people here were nibbling around that.
FOR THE RECORD< I think it was foul deed done by a wretch of a person.

My last comment would be, how do we know the man is now in paradise, only God can really know that?

[Ben Kenobi]

1. because the nuns trained me pretty thoroughly and the most important thing they taught be was to use reason and test everything. Faith takes care of anything left. As I said, they taught me well.

Interesting. Explains why we spar. You see reason as more important than faith, with me it's just the opposite. I'm more of a Kantian wrt to reason, it is a useful tool, but it has some serious limitations. I like Hobbes, whereas you sound like you quite like Rousseau and Voltaire.

2. Because of all the people that are brainwashed like you. They repeat dogma and use faith as an excuse not to think. They are are right and everyone else is wrong. And there were enough so called christians that were really bigots hiding behind their faith. My father in law was a devote catholic yet i've never heard a man use words like ****, ******, wop, *** as often as he did. I tried to keep my daughter away from him as much as possible.

You've never met me, and you would characterise me as the same as your father in law? I'm a bit surprised by that impression. Why do you get the impression that I use religion as a means not to think? For me, it's simply because there are things that reason and logic do a very poor job of explaining. It's not because I don't want to think, it's simply because as a tool, it doesn't work. How can one use empirical means to test miracles? They just don't work that way.

I'll admit that I had and still have a lot respect for a lot of the nuns and priests that taught me. They believe, but still think, and they didn't hate.

Well, I don't know why you would think that I would say that you have to believe while throwing out your brain. Quite the opposite. I see faith and reason like particle and wave. They are always there together, and it's only if we understand both that we get the complete picture.

Most christians have not earned my respect.

Well, I am sorry if I have let you down in this regard, but it is your faith rah, and has been for far longer than my own.

[OzzyKP]

Lack of condemnation is a far cry from supporting it.
I'm with Asher, condemnation is the default. And people here were nibbling around that.
FOR THE RECORD< I think it was foul deed done by a wretch of a person.

My last comment would be, how do we know the man is now in paradise, only God can really know that?

I never said they supported it. That is what pro-choicers were running around saying though when Tiller was shot, despite the immediate condemnations from pro-life groups.

But the fact that pro-lifers went out of their way to condemn the last one and pro-choicers just don't seem to care this time is worth noting.

[loinburger]

But the fact that pro-lifers went out of their way to condemn the last one and pro-choicers just don't seem to care this time is worth noting.

In the former case it was an attempt to deny a trend. In the latter case there's no trend to deny.

[chequita guevara]

[Q=chequita guevara;5673405]This is a logical fallacy, a "no true Scotsman argument."[/Q] Being a Scotsman is an accident of birth or a consequence of immigration. That which is born of flesh is flesh. Christianity is defined by relationship to the true God, that which is born of spirit.

Don't be a ****ing moron.

If you can claim Christians who act in a certain way aren't Christians, I can claim that Stalin wasn't a communist.

[rah]

You've never met me, and you would characterise me as the same as your father in law? I'm a bit surprised by that impression.

I never said you were as bad as my father in law in that regard.
But your posts have lead me to believe you're closer to him than the priests that I respect. And unless I do meet you, that's all the evidence I have to go on. It's a shame because I figure there's really no way you're as bad as you portray yourself here. And some of it is the posts at other sites where you think we don't see.

[OzzyKP]

In the former case it was an attempt to deny a trend. In the latter case there's no trend to deny.

There has been a great deal of violence against pro-lifers over the years (less murder admittedly), but still far more than what people here are aware of.

[Asher]

No more than the violence any group of protesters get, I'm sure.