Pro-Life Activist Gunned Down in Michigan

[rah]

When it's the mother of a fertalized egg that isn't a person yet, YES, no contest.

[DaShi]

So you support abortion?

[rah]

Not really, but when does the egg become human is a big question, that nobody here really knows the answer to. So everyone is welcome to their own opinion. Including you and me.

[DaShi]

Not me!!

[Jon Miller]

When there is a brain? When there is brainwaves? When there is a beating heart?

Science would say yes. I don't see why we behave all differently here and say it is an opinion, even having to kill the child inside the womb because if it took a breath then suddenly it would be human and have to be saved.

JM

[rah]

I think most would agree for certain when the baby would be viable outside the womb but how early before that is less certain and I think there are many good opinions on that despite how varied they are. I have an opinion but I can't be 100% sure so I'm not going to argue other's beliefs on that. You're all entitled to your own opinion on that, and I hope you'd respect mine also.

BUT, I refuse to listen to any arguement that includes the term "soul". Even if one exists, only God knows the answer to that one. And no one here can claim that one.

[Ben Kenobi]

I see it more like a position of moral arrogance.
Pro-lifers, as I understand it, say this:
You, ordinary people, are too ignorant/stupid/immoral to make a decision for yourself or your children. Therefor, some superior entity (God, Government) has to tell you how things should be dealt. Herefore, we forbid you to even decide for yourself, or for your children, what is best or what is the least of two evils.

Uh, some choices are wrong. We can't choose to kill people. Part of the job of government is to protect people from being shot by other people who don't much care for the rights of another person. WRT to abortion, all a prolifer is saying is that personhood begins at conception, and thus, the unborn child must be protected in the same way we protect other people. Abortion is only wrong because it kills someone who's already alive.

To deny that people could be reasonable, make decision of their own, with the help of professionals if needed or be educated on the subject, is similar to deny democracy or universal suffrage for the same reasons.

To deny that some persons are not fully persons is reminescent of laws permitting slavery. A mother no more owns her child, than she is owned by her husband.

Being pro-life, for me, is more a middle-age position, paternalistic, morally arrogant. It says: people are not capable of taking care of themselves, we have to make the decision for them.

Just the opposite. Who benefits from abortion? It isn't the mothers. It's the men who don't want to have to support a child for the rest of their life. The mothers suffer from their abortion, while the men? They go on. How is it paternalistic to keep your child?

If, and only if, he was killed for his position - and that is still not established - he might be a martyr of pro-life position, not of christianity.

Again, the killer himself admitted that he shot James Pouillon because of his prolife activism. What more proof do you need?

Abortion is to me similar to amputation.

So when then does a child become a person? My arm, as cool as it is, is not going to suddenly grow as a completely new person.

The pro-choice position is exactly what it tells: pro choice. Even if you are anti-abortion, in a pro-choice society, it is entirely yours to decide for you and your future child.

Really? Why then do you permit babies to be killed? They are not your 'future' child. They are your child when they are in your womb.

In a pro-life society, you have not that choice. You are considered too ignorant/stupid/immoral to make a choice about the future of your child.

No, again, some choices are just wrong. People ought to be protected from being killed by another person, and that includes unborn children.

The humanist position includes the idea that everyone is entitled to make decisions for himself,

How is a position which renders unborn children akin to body parts 'humanist'? You are treating human beings as objects, which is precisely the opposite of humanism.

Pro-choice position puts parents in full front of their responsability to decide for the foetus.

Parents do not have the right to kill their children. That is the difference. Yes parents have the rights to make decisions for their children, but they cannot simply kill them.

[Ben Kenobi]

Having to carry a rapist's child to term can impact the mental health of the mother. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

So does abortion.

[rah]

So don't you think the mother should be allowed to choose what type of metal impact she'll face since she's the one that has to face it. I think one is worse than the other, But I'm glad I'll never have to make that decision for myself, let alone someone else. But I'm sure you know better than all of us and will tell us what is right here.

[Lorizael]

So don't you think the mother should be allowed to choose what type of metal impact she'll face since she's the one that has to face it. I think one is worse than the other, But I'm glad I'll never have to make that decision for myself, let alone someone else. But I'm sure you know better than all of us and will tell us what is right here.

For those that believe abortion is murder, there should be no choice. A choice between mental distress and mental distress+murder is really easy.

[loinburger]

So when then does a child become a person?

Do you care what anybody's answer to this question is? If not, then please don't ask it.

[Elok]

Do you care what anybody's answer to this question is? If not, then please don't ask it.

Do you care if he cares? Does he care if you care if he cares?

[loinburger]

I care if he cares if I care if he cares, but I'm afraid I don't care if he cares if I care if he cares if I care if he cares if I care if he cares because that's just silly.

[rah]

For those that believe abortion is murder, there should be no choice. A choice between mental distress and mental distress+murder is really easy.

I hope you never have a wife that get's raped. You might change your tune or end up divorced. Oh right, you don't believe in divorce either. And no, I'm not trying to be a wise ass, but your attitude that you know what's best for women who have been raped is so patronizing that it make me ill.

[rah]

And I love how you used the word "choice" twice in your post...., like you give them one.
You're right. If the woman believes that an early term abortion isn't murder then she should have the choice. It isn't your decision. What, are you as bad as the Muslims that treat their women like Chattel who get no decision in procreation matters. No contraceptives, no abortions, obey your husband. This is starting to sound a bit familiar.