Prediction Thread: When Will Ukraine Conquer Russia

[Berzerker]

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/12/minsk-ii-was-agreed-on-to-arm-ukraine-did-merkel-really-say-that.html

he argues Merkel was trying to head off a bigger war with the Minsk deal because Russia would have rolled over the Ukrainians, not necessarily so Ukraine would be stronger for a future war albeit that is the reality. She was also working on Nordstrom to bypass land pipelines thru Ukraine and Poland so she wasn't planning on this war.

I think that Merkel is obfuscating. Her original intent with Minsk II was not to buy time to arm Ukraine. Her intent was to prevent a further war and to make peace. The argument, that it gave time for Ukraine to arm, is only made now and only to save her political ass in the current political climate.

The proof for that is in what she also brings up, Nord Stream 2, which has always had her full support. Its intent was to make Germany independent from the pipelines through Ukraine and Poland. But war came before the much delayed pipeline was ready. And any realistic alternative for Germany's current position was gone after the U.S. finally blew it up. Her answer with regards to Nord Stream 2 makes no sense if she, at the same time that Nord Stream 2 was build, had intentionally prepared Ukraine for war.

[Uncle Sparky]

do you believe the USA wanted this war?

They didn't not want it. American, Canadian, British and other western nations knew as soon as the military build up in Belarus began. This is why military trainers,advisors, NGOs, etc were transfered out post-haste. If they didn't want a Russian invasion, NATO would have started an official joint 'training exersize' instead of moving troops and equipment out.

Do you think Russia would have tried to liberate Kiev if NATO troops were in the area, or if the Black Sea had a US fleet (in international waters of course). How naive are you? (never mind...)

[PLATO]

Kidicious made Berzerker look sane. But, now that he’s gone……

Yup

[Berzerker]

no no, it wasn't a coup...thats Russian propaganda and shame on Ukrainian protesters for thinking otherwise (burn them)... In the west we call it the Revolution of Dignity

yeah, we killed a bunch of people and it eventually led to an 8 year war but we write the headlines too

do you believe the USA wanted this war?

Azov, ISIS, our foot soldiers in the new cold war... We created Al Qaeda to kill Russians and their allies and we asked the Saudis for help, thats why their radical Wahhabis ended up in Afghanistan. We brought these people to the Afghans and then spent 3 decades destroying their country. Can we ask the world if Russia, China or the USA is the lesser evil? Who gets your vote?

[PLATO]

Long read: https://www.rand.org/pubs/perspectives/PE198.html

Good read, but nothing that informed reasonable people shouldn't already know. To me, this is just further confirmation that Russia has adopted the Nazi model and has deteriorated to the point that they must rely on their own fantasies to maintain the control they have. While it is certainly a goal to divide the West with propaganda, I suspect it is far more important to them to unite their own people with this web of lies and falsehoods.

[BeBMan]

Long read: https://www.rand.org/pubs/perspectives/PE198.html

[pchang]

Kidicious made Berzerker look sane. But, now that he’s gone……

[PLATO]

Yawn. I do get tired of people repeating debunked Russian propaganda.

Thank you.

[Berzerker]

Ray McGovern was interviewed by Jimmy Dore

https://youtu.be/9ReQ_97k7sI

and the sniper attack

https://theworld.org/stories/2015-02...ssacre-ukraine

[Dinner]

Yawn. I do get tired of people repeating debunked Russian propaganda.

[Berzerker]

Sorry...This is ridiculous. Yanukovych was removed from the presidency with over 72% of the Parliament voting to remove him. This is like saying that if Trump had been convicted in the Senate during one of his impeachment trials that removing him from office would be a coup. It would not justify...say Alabama...any region of the country declaring independence.

The Minsk accords were signed by Ukraine basically at the point of a gun. Why would they do anything to promote a settlement that was imposed on them by a foreign power concerning their own territory?

Wall Street has always been ripping us off so trying to apply that to Ukraine is non sequitur.

It should be clear to nearly anyone that Russia is an aggressor state. They have provided examples in Georgia and to some extend Moldova besides what they have been doing in Ukraine since 2014.

Finally, if you think Trump would not be double crossed by Putin, then you clearly haven't been following who Putin really is. He is definitely a megalomaniac, a ruthless killer, and an unreliable partner in anything. He is about power and money...nothing else. We should all understand now that the Ukraine war was inevitable as long as Ukraine was not a part of NATO...regardless of who the U.S. President was.

The right wing massacred a bunch of people at a protest to blame the President and it worked, that was a coup. Victoria Nuland was recorded choosing the next President 2-3 weeks before it happened and thats who replaced him. Trump's MAGA didn't send a squad of snipers to shoot hundreds of people and he's accused of a coup. The BBC interviewed one of the snipers, he was told to shoot cops and protesters. Azov's guns were pointing at the Donbas, not the other way around. The people of the Donbas were defending themselves, they didn't send 'volunteers' to attack Kiev.

How are Wall St's motives and war profiteering a non sequitur? I think your understanding is the non sequitur, this was not inevitable - it followed an 8 year war against ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine and threats of impending Nato membership. This didn't happen on Trump's watch so that double cross didn't happen. Trump was arming those Nazis and Putin still held back, but the return of the Obama/Biden neocon agenda led to this disaster. Please tell me you understand the US (not Trump) wanted Putin to invade and tried to make it happen. As for Putin, the US makes him look angelic.

[Berzerker]

Minsk would have ended the war

[Berzerker]

Russia wont kill him for making peace...something the man of the year would have done before this got out of hand. But Biden found out he was trying to make a deal and Boris hopped a plane to nix it.

[N35t0r]

Even without Putin in power, I would still like Ukraine in NATO and/or the EU.

Tell you what, we can trade them for Hungary.

[PLATO]

Well, yeah, you can't end the war in Donbass without Russia stopping to funnel equipment and 'volunteers'.

The war will never truly be over until Russia is expelled from the Donbas and Crimea AND Ukraine joins NATO....that is as long as Putin is in power...