Prediction Thread: When Will Ukraine Conquer Russia

[pchang]

Prigozhin: 62 years was a pretty good run.

[Berzerker]

You constantly assert they "shelled civillians" for 8 years. Wth does that even mean Berz? Does that mean they wanted the civilians to die? If so given how much better Russia has proven to be at shelling civilians in one year than Ukraine was in eight, it's still obvious sending more arms to the Ukrainian side is the right move if we don't like civilians to die.

But really, if your BS about "civilians shelled" for 8 years were anything close to true, the most heavily shelled areas wouldn't be airports, farms and rural villages. Instead Donetsk and Luhansk would look like Mariupol.

Actions speak louder than propaganda Berz.

I was responding to someone using the term 'shelling civilians'. I think they wanted civilians protesting their coup to die and yes, those are/were civilian areas. The civilians eventually became 'separatists' or mostly got out of the way. Mariupol was Azov's strong hold. How many civilians have been killed by Russia since the 2014 war? How many since Feb '22? Looks to me like Russia has been trying to avoid civilians and could have leveled Kiev in Mar '22 but backed away before the USA told Zelensky to violate his own treaty.

Why didn't the Russian military invade the Donbas before the separatists begged for help and were they attacked by the civilians when they did intervene? Actions do speak louder than propaganda, the people of the Donbas rejected our coup and when we sent a Nazi army to attack them they fought back with Russia's help.

[Berzerker]

The Donbas didn't attack Kiev

[PLATO]

You're probably right but the point of this somewhat elaborate misdirection would be that Putin wouldn't have to admit defeat just admit having been betrayed by an ambitious Shoigu.

Russia still occupies a large part of Ukraine. Putin could claim victory, offer to withdraw to Feb 24 boundaries, say "Mission Accomplished", arrest Shoigu, and dare the world to support Ukraine attacking beyond the Feb 24 boundary. Essentially re-freezing the conflict and Russia maintaining Crimea and the industrial heartland of the Donbas. Ukraine would then have some decisions to make as would its supporters.

My guess at this point is that Ukraine has had enough of Russian occupation and would continue the fight. That could depend on the West's attitude toward continuing the fight. Hard to tell....

[Geronimo]

I am even more confused about the we shelling civilians part.

JM

Nobody can blame you that. For reasons only Russian stooges would attempt to explain, they believe that Azov was controlled by the US government which directed Azov to "shell the civilians" in the Donbas because "the civilians in the Donbas", "opposed the coup". Supposedly the US government spent 8 years trying to kill civilians in the Donbas by using Azov to continually shell the civilians until January 2022 when the US government had Azov dramatically increase the shelling forcing Russia which had been very busy getting hundreds of thousands of troops and equipment all around Ukraine for an invasion to suddenly respond by invading just after they finished deploying everything.

So you see..."we" were shelling the civilians for 8 years

[Jon Miller]

You constantly assert they "shelled civillians" for 8 years. Wth does that even mean Berz? Does that mean they wanted the civilians to die? If so given how much better Russia has proven to be at shelling civilians in one year than Ukraine was in eight, it's still obvious sending more arms to the Ukrainian side is the right move if we don't like civilians to die.

But really, if your BS about "civilians shelled" for 8 years were anything close to true, the most heavily shelled areas wouldn't be airports, farms and rural villages. Instead Donetsk and Luhansk would look like Mariupol.

Actions speak louder than propaganda Berz.

I am even more confused about the we shelling civilians part.

JM

[Geronimo]

Doubtful. Putin is incapable of admitting defeat.

You're probably right but the point of this somewhat elaborate misdirection would be that Putin wouldn't have to admit defeat just admit having been betrayed by an ambitious Shoigu.

[-Jrabbit]

Doubtful. Putin is incapable of admitting defeat.

[pchang]

Interesting interview with prigozhin:

https://nitter.net/i/status/1672177488535977984

Along other comments (from machine translation):

• Ukraine has not bombed Donetsk for 8 years, but only the positions of the Russians. All these years Donbass has been plundered, including by employees of the Russian presidential administration.

Could this be the beginnings of an exit plan? "Throw Shoigu under the bus!"

[BlackCat]

At least, they don't smoke as much as average russian marines.

[BeBMan]

Russia making efforts to increase the average IQ of its naval forces in the Black Sea:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/23/russia-security-sevastopol-black-sea-base-spy-dolphins

[Broken_Erika]

Self-proclaimed Tsar Prigozhin reappeared
"Ukraine has not bombed Donetsk for 8 years, only Russian positions. The Armed Forces of Ukraine were not going to attack Russia with NATO soldiers, the Russian Ministry of Defense is deceiving the public and the president."

https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1672157866222923781?

[Geronimo]

Then why did Boris travel to Kiev to talk Zelensky out of a non-existent peace deal? We were shelling civilians for 8 years after the coup.

You constantly assert they "shelled civillians" for 8 years. Wth does that even mean Berz? Does that mean they wanted the civilians to die? If so given how much better Russia has proven to be at shelling civilians in one year than Ukraine was in eight, it's still obvious sending more arms to the Ukrainian side is the right move if we don't like civilians to die.

But really, if your BS about "civilians shelled" for 8 years were anything close to true, the most heavily shelled areas wouldn't be airports, farms and rural villages. Instead Donetsk and Luhansk would look like Mariupol.

Actions speak louder than propaganda Berz.

[N35t0r]

Interesting interview with prigozhin:

https://nitter.net/i/status/1672177488535977984

Along other comments (from machine translation):

• Ukraine has not bombed Donetsk for 8 years, but only the positions of the Russians. All these years Donbass has been plundered, including by employees of the Russian presidential administration.

[Broken_Erika]

No, they fled when the separatists took over and started slaughtering the pro ukraine people, i know a ukrainian who posts on CFC, who had to flee the russians. BTW the separatists were more Nazi than Azov.