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Prediction Thread: When Will Ukraine Conquer Russia
Things that limit Americans right to vote are bad.
If all the ways to vote that had a potential for fraud were closed, there would be no votes since every form of voting is subject to fraud.
I don't know how limiting access to voting is a benefit to the voters.
I could propose a system where voters could dial an automated phone system and the system would tally their votes. I could make the system continually available and update the ballot choices as campaigns evolve. Voters would be forbidden to vote more than once but voting would be anonymous and recorded for any recounts. No system currently in use could possibly be easier.
Would that be a good change? Would that system and it's ease of use be good for democracy Ming?
Things that limit Americans right to vote are bad.
If all the ways to vote that had a potential for fraud were closed, there would be no votes since every form of voting is subject to fraud.
I don't know how limiting access to voting is a benefit to the voters.
They are making it more difficult to vote by limiting mail in ballots, eliminating drop boxes, limiting the number of polling stations,
All these things help make it easier to vote for working and poor Americans.
In a perfect world, EVERY AMERICAN would vote.
Unfortunately, the US has terrible voting participation. And they just want to make it worse.
And it's minorities and poor people that the Repubs are trying to stop from voting.
They keep claiming election security as the reason, but that's all BS.
They have yet to prove (and they have tried repeatedly) that these forms of voting are more prone to voter fraud.
There was No wide spread fraud in the last election... but they keep claiming there was with NO PROOF, so they can make it harder for people (mostly Democrats) to vote.
Paper ballots are just as easy to cheat with as any other form of voting.
There has always been opportunity for nearly undetectable voter fraud and the ease of discreetly coordinating such fraud using encrypted communication continuously increases.
Trump was aware of this but only paid it any notice when he wasn't getting enough electoral college votes to win. The fact is a lot of this opportunity existed in 2016 as well and never seemed interested in combatting opportunity for fraud that may have occurred in *that* election let alone ever openly speculated on the implications such undetected 2016 voter fraud would have had for the legitimacy of his election.
The problem is obviously that republicans and democrats seem ok with fraud when they think it will help them but want to stamp it out and close the door to fraud if they think it will help their opposition.
undetectable scalable election fraud loopholes such as Harry Wait demonstrated are extremely dangerous. I get frustrated as hell when people respond that because nobody was caught committing such scalable undetectable voter fraud except for the guy that published his success at doing so that this serves as some kind of evidence that the elections are largely safe from fraud.
When republicans cynically propose only fraud remedies that they statistically expect to help them win I certainly share your contempt for that cynicism. However, that does not mean voters won't benefit to the extent that *any* viable fraud loopholes are closed.
I just wish efforts would apply at least a little Failure Modes and Effects Analysis from the point of view of the electorate as the consumer instead of pure partisan game theory.
They are making it more difficult to vote by limiting mail in ballots, eliminating drop boxes, limiting the number of polling stations,
All these things help make it easier to vote for working and poor Americans.
In a perfect world, EVERY AMERICAN would vote.
Unfortunately, the US has terrible voting participation. And they just want to make it worse.
And it's minorities and poor people that the Repubs are trying to stop from voting.
They keep claiming election security as the reason, but that's all BS.
They have yet to prove (and they have tried repeatedly) that these forms of voting are more prone to voter fraud.
There was No wide spread fraud in the last election... but they keep claiming there was with NO PROOF, so they can make it harder for people (mostly Democrats) to vote.
Paper ballots are just as easy to cheat with as any other form of voting.
So true... the Republican party is now the party of insults, revenge, no real issues, limiting rights of women and minorities, and making it more difficult for AMERICANS to vote.
I want no part of that White supremacy nonsense.
With respect, not everything that makes it more difficult to vote is contrary to the interests of voters.
Specifically which difficulties they have advocated are bothering you?
Remember Harry Wait in Wisconsin arrested for voter fraud?
"I’d do the same thing again. It’s necessary to save our republic. We’re hanging on a thread," he told FOX6 when asked if he regrets what he did.
He was only caught because he published his crime to make a point.
Election fraud is dismissed because of so few violations of existing laws being prosecuted. That's not evidence of lack of fraud. That can instead merely be evidence of lack of evidence. Many kinds of fraud would not be expected to leave any evidence.
Last edited by Geronimo; July 17, 2023, 11:00.
Reason: More details....
Would you say that you have stayed in the same place politically, but that the Republican Party moved too far away from you?
So true... the Republican party is now the party of insults, revenge, no real issues, limiting rights of women and minorities, and making it more difficult for AMERICANS to vote.
I want no part of that White supremacy nonsense.
If Biden had been on the pro-war/pro-intervention side, he would have kept us in Afghanistan.
He pushed for us to get out of Afghanistan during Obama's administration and then, despite Trump making it a poison pill, actually took us out of Afghanistan in 2021.
JM
Trump negotiated the peace deal and our departure, the neocons had a replacement war ready
I read left and right media and make up my own mind.
Republican voting laws are meant to lower minority voting... Period.
Redistricting to limit minority representation... Fact. Thank god the courts have told them to screw off on occasion.
And the laws they are passing are restricting rights for Americans... women, minorities, gays and anybody else they don't like, simply to play to their base of less educated whites. But heaven forbid they pass basic and smart gun laws.
I was a Republican for most of my life but now I'm really no party, and will vote for people who aren't on the extremes of either party.
Unfortunately, enough Republicans feel that way... simply look at all the laws they are passing to limit the rights of women and other minorities. The laws they are passing to make it tougher for minorities to vote. Redistricting to minimize minorities votes... They sound like a bunch of Nazi's to me.
You are looking at many of these laws through the biased view of liberal media. You are better than these comments.
Joe Biden was the warmonger's pick in 2020 and in 2016 they chose Hillary. They probably wanted her in 2008 but Obama ran against her support for Biden's invasion of Iraq. The Dem establishment is right wing, pro war, pro censorship, pro merger of corporatism and statism - fascism. I've seen your analogies, making you think is beyond my ability.
If Biden had been on the pro-war/pro-intervention side, he would have kept us in Afghanistan.
He pushed for us to get out of Afghanistan during Obama's administration and then, despite Trump making it a poison pill, actually took us out of Afghanistan in 2021.
Makes me think Berz might just be an elaborate troll with no sincere posts.
Possibly, but I do not think so. I can say from experience that trolls give minimal effort for maximum results. Let's say for a moment that Berz IS a troll; the amount of time he spends reading all his information from politics to ancient Mesopotamia, and then to make walls of text after walls of text about said topics just to get laughed at and dismissed at best, proves he is a terrible troll. Real trolls can make you snap with 2 posts, one line each, then make YOU post walls of angry text.
So I believe what Berz is saying he actually believes. I do not agree with much of it, but he is actually learned about what he is saying, he just chose a side most find distasteful.
Ming if you think the right wingers you describe constitute a plurality of the Republicans you seriously need to recalibrate.
But you're right that it's insane to characterize Biden, serving as a US president nominated by the Democrat party as any kind of "right winger" in a US political context. That's just nuts. Makes me think Berz might just be an elaborate troll with no sincere posts.
Joe Biden was the warmonger's pick in 2020 and in 2016 they chose Hillary. They probably wanted her in 2008 but Obama ran against her support for Biden's invasion of Iraq. The Dem establishment is right wing, pro war, pro censorship, pro merger of corporatism and statism - fascism. I've seen your analogies, making you think is beyond my ability.
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